'Tony Zale would lick him' Graziano when asked about a SRR vs Zale match up

Maybe he said it after the Vito fight??

 

:dealThis is more like it.

 

I think Robinson from the early 50s could beat Zale. The mobility and the ability to box and more than enough power to get the "Man of Steel`s" respect.

If SRR fought him from the mid 40s he would be even faster but at the same time probably give away quite a bit of weight so maybe that even things out.


Robinson by decision.

 

I read once that Robinson said he would demand a ton of money to fight Zale, because he knew that a fight with Tony Zale, win or lose, would be very hurtful. Due to Zale's body punching.
Not to imply that he was afraid- I don't think any pro is afraid if the price is right and the money is there- just that Robinson himself knew it would be a full night's work.

 

Keep in mind that the Zale of the Graziano trilogy was past his prime. He would have decimated Rocky in his prime years. It would have been very one sided.

 

One of the reasons I pick the best Tony Zale over the best Ray Robinson is for me the fact that a fairly good middleweight Artie Levine dropped Robinson flat on his back for maybe 17 seconds ,because the referee, before starting his one count, walked Levine to a neutral corner,and walked back to the prostate Robinson and THEN started his count...
This gave the groggy Robinson an extra 7 seconds or so to get off the canvas,badly hurt...Artie Levine was not half the fighter a prime Zale was....So shouldn't a bigger, stronger Tony Zale have a helluva shot against a smaller Robinson, who was truly a better welterweight than an older middleweight ? And Zale beat a younger Georgie Abrams more decisively than the prime Robinson did...So where am I wrong in my hunch
that Zale would win ?

 

SP, did, Robinson drop Marty Servo in their two bouts ? Did Robinson drop Kid Gavilan in their bout?. Did Robinson drop the smaller Carmine Basillio
in their 2 bouts ? Of course not. So why would you be certain that the bigger, rugged hitting Tony Zale would assuredly be dropped by an older Ray Robinson? In the 1940s I recall Tony Zale before his 4 year stint in the Navy was thought of more highly then, then he does now...Probably the best body puncher ever who could absorb great punishment and TURN THE TIDE...cheers...
P.S. watch those powerful punches that the 35 year old faded Zale
decimated Rocky Graziano. Almost killed Rocky...

 

Jackson, C. (1946, Nov 16). "Sugar" ray' robinson kayoes artie levine in 10th round; 4th stanza left hook downs ray for 9 count. Cleveland Call and Post (1934-1962), pp. 9B.

Midway through the fourth stanza Levine caught the Sugar Boy coming out of a clinch and shot a short left hook to the chin sending Robinson down on his knees. Pandemonium broke out as the crowd sensed the start of a stunning upset.
By Robinson taking a count of nine skillfully evaded Levines frantic efforts to finish him.
Ray actually got in a series of stinging left hooks before the round ended.
It was a ticklish spot for the negro fighter. Artie was unable to follow up his advantage on the will o wisp Ray.

Now burt will u please consider once and for all an apology to the ghost of this tremendous fighter?

 

S," one swallow don't make a spring " ,it is said...You quote a single article from a hometown reporter, whilst I recall reading many accounts of the fight from newspapers,magazines and most importantly from first hand conversations from boxing people a short time later at Stillman's gym...
Why would they lie ? I am not blaming Robinson for him getting the benefit of "a long count" ? But facts speak for themselves and for U to deny this occurrence which HAPPENED is not fair to Artie Levine...Furthermore Levine hurt Robby several times during the 10 round bout...
And one other thing S, U got the wrong guy in me to have to apologize to
Ray Robinson...I have been his greatest advocate, having seen him at his
summit as a welterweight,and in his fantastic ko of Randy Turpin at the old Polo Grounds in 1951, when he was cut very badly and the ref was close to stopping the bout...If Randy Turpin could come so close to stopping
the great SRR, why couldn't the harder punching and more durable Zale do as well and better ? And I cannot apologize to a man who I call the
greatest fighter I ever saw or will see ...

 

I don't like the idea of calling a match "prime for prime" and than slotting Ray Robinson at MW. His prime was at Welterweight and there can be very little dispute to that statement.

He was the most avoided fighter probably in the history of boxing at 147, so he essentially had no choice but to move up in weight classes and fight. Even when he fought Turpin he was a bit past his prime at that point. It just speaks volumes about Sugar Ray that he's widely considered the greatest in both the WW and MW divisions.

But if they met in the early 50's, say '51 or '52, Zale would lose in a relatively wide decision at MW. But it would be a brutal fight for both guys physically.

 

E,good post, but to say Robinson was the most "highly avoided" fighter in boxing at 147 in history is not true...FEARED YES, but not avoided. Look at the 100 or more welterweights who courageously shared a ring with SRR.
They must have known they would not win, BUT in the 1940s fighters had to fight to provide for their families and fought at least monthly. Not like today's prima donna's of the ring...cheerio...

 

Great convo. Learning a lot.

 

Had any of you deliberating about this seen SRR live, ya wouldn't have second thoughts.

 

SRR would've knocked Tony Zale out cold, just like he did with Rocky Graziano. Why? Because Tony Zale would be too easy to hit and way out of his league in terms of speed.