Have boxing skills progressed, or have they regressed?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Loudon, Jun 22, 2013.


  1. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Hearns was a class act! :good

    I'm half way through his book.

    There's no way Joe could have fought at 160.

    Do you honestly think he'd have beaten Spinks in his prime, weighing whatever he was comfortable at?
     
  2. Koba

    Koba Whimsical Inactivisist Full Member

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    But what you're doing here is comparing, cherrypicking if you like, recognised ATGs against current champions.

    Outstanding talent comes along essentially randomly and you're picking from amongst all of boxing history. This does not constitute an argument that boxing as a whole has become less skilled.

    I don't think that anyone was claiming that the current generation of champions are the greatest ever, merely that overall pro boxing skills have improved or at the least, evolved.
     
  3. Southpaw1

    Southpaw1 Member Full Member

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    This is a hard question to answer. Are we talking about comparing todays fighters to the 90s, 80s, 70s...?

    If we compare fighters now to those of the 30s, than no, it has progressed, but from the 70's and 80s until not, then in my opinion matches yours
     
  4. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    I've just picked out a few examples to emphasise my point.

    I personally think that some skills have been lost. I watch a lot of boxing, and I don't see fighters going to the body as much. I hardly see any double hooks, and hardly any uppercuts. It's just my opinion.

    The examples I've picked out, are in response to people who have said that these guys today are the best ever.

    If you want, I'll be specific and say that the all time champions of the past are better than modern fighters.

    I can agree that for example, today's MW division as a WHOLE may be stronger than say the 60's for example.

    But if skills have progressed as a whole, and fighters are getting better with each year that passes, then why aren't the fighters today regarded as the best of all time?

    I agree that I'm cherry picking.

    But I still have a point.
     
  5. Ted Stickles

    Ted Stickles Boxing Addict Full Member

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    When I read this title I immediately thought of Gene Tunney he to me was the first glimpse of the future by using skills,athleticism,and his intellect.
     
  6. rusak

    rusak Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Your point is garbage. Why aren't the fighters today regarded as the best of all time? It depends on who you ask, but it's largely because they aren't finished yet and the jury's still out on their place in history. Ray Robinson wasn't regarded as the best ever early in his career either. By the way, where's that video evidence of amazing skills lost?
     
  7. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    All of your posts are garbage!

    Your basketball analogy was hilarious!

    It depends who you ask?

    A lot of today's best fighters are nearing the end of their careers.

    Do you think today's crop of MW's are the best ever?

    What about the LHW's?

    I can agree that they maybe more strength in depth in some of today's divisions as a whole, but when you start analysing all the divisions and you find that the greatest fighters from each division were nearly all from the past, then what does that tell you?
     
  8. WelshWizard

    WelshWizard Slap King Full Member

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    WOW, first I take my hat off to you since you ask probably the most intelligent question here and it also makes the reader think for a moment. I say it's complicated for the fact I believe that everyone has their own styles when it comes to boxing since each individual has to utilize the skills they have. Not everyone is going to fight the same since not everyone can't be technical sound like Mayweather, Ward, and Rigo for example. I think boxing has regressed as far pure fundamental boxer goes since there's not a lot of these fighters around since majority of fighters abandon the fundamental of boxing instead result into a boxer/puncher/ or brawler but that's based on the individual. Today's fighters have the advantage as far as nutrition and training equipment goes but not training since a lot of old time fighters use to go 15 rounds ! I think the biggest thing why you don't see a lot of skills is because these fighters today don't really care about learning their craft and just all about money. The ones that have decent talent earn a good amount but as soon they get battle tested they and lose they fade away as quickly as they started. I think I can go on forever about this topic with pros and cons but it's going to turn into a book at this point lol
     
  9. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Thanks mate, and this is a great post from yourself. I agree entirely with what you've said. I'd like to hear more from you regarding this if you have the time.

    Thanks!
     
  10. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    That's fine mate, I'm not bothered what the public opinion is where you're based. Ali at his peak wouldn't get caved in, because his movement would be a nightmare for those two fighters.

    Manny and Pac do get their recognition, and rightly so, but there's been better fighters than them at the weight they fight at.

    Koba is a great poster, and I agree for example, that the MW divisions of the 80's and 90's was stronger than the 60's and 70's. So there was more strength in depth there, and you could say there was progress. But then the MW era of the 00's wasn't as strong/good, and although today's division is better, it's still not as strong as the 80's and 90's.

    So it's been up and down.

    That will have happened in other era's too. But I made this thread, because when I see old fights, I see the fighters doing things that I don't see that often now.

    Even if you could make a case for boxing progression based on more strength in depth today across each divisions as a whole, it still doesn't alter the fact, that if you name the best ever fighter from each weight class, they'll be more than likely from the past, and it's nothing to do with being nostalgic.

    I'm also certain that if you had a time machine, and you put all of today's top fighters against their predecessors, they'd nearly all lose.

    I know you think Ali wouldn't beat Wlad or Vitali.

    But just go across the other divisions, and match today's best Vs the best from yesteryear.

    It would be a huge victory for fighters from the past.
     
  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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  12. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Knocking Louis down was the worst thing Tony could of done since it induced a rage in Joe and made him tear Galento to pieces...Louis displayed skills in the ring that haven't been seen since.
     
  13. rusak

    rusak Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Take your meds and sit your ass down, nutbag.
     
  14. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie banned

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    I don't think I have ever read anything, anywhere as completely wrong as the above words. You do realise the term p4p was coined to describe SRR, long before his career was over?

    As for the thread title, I think todays boxers are fitter, stronger, and more athletic than boxers of the past. But as far as pure boxing skills are concerned the vast majority are far behind the older guys.
     
  15. HitBattousai

    HitBattousai Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ultimately, boxing skills have regressed, particularly in my view in terms of inside fighting, cutting off the ring, and using good upper head/body movement. There are very few fighters around that have the ability to do any of those things well anymore, much less all three of them.

    And naturally some divisions(cough, Heavyweight) have regressed for other reasons. More athletes going to other sports, less dedication causing fighters to not get in any kind of shape, etc. Makes it easy for the KBros, since while they are far from fluid boxers, there's nobody there that has the tools to take advantage of their flaws anymore and to their credit, they always come in shape.