'Tony Zale would lick him' Graziano when asked about a SRR vs Zale match up

Thanks A...I'm winded now as I just ran after some broad 3 blocks, finally caught up to her, but I forgot why .atsch

 

ETM, I feel that the Tony Zale BEFORE his 4 year Navy stint was much better than any MW Robinson fought with the POSSIBLE exception of
Jake LaMotta. I discount LaMotta's being stopped in his last bout with SRR. It was well known at the time that Jake had to lose about 10 pounds before the fight with LaMotta in 1951, weakening LaMotta greatly, thus fading in the last few rounds, and Robinson knowing this bided his time. After all in their 4 previous bouts LaMotta was never even badly hurt..
So, my hunch considering how Artie Levine possibly kod SRR, Randy Turpin
beat SRR, and almost stopped him in their second bout, that a prime pre WW2 Tony Zale ,a class above these 2 guys would have a much better chance to beat the SRR as a MW...Growing up I would read that the "man of steel", was a paralyzing body puncher, as shown by film of the past peak, 35 year old tremendous punches that decimated a peak Rocky Graziano..I would say at that time when Zale was at his peak he would be a 6-5 favourite to beat a 157 pound Ray Robinson. P4P of course Robinson had no peer, but Robinson NEVER met a puncher as strong as Tony Zale...

 

Zale was better than Jake, he wasn't a class above Turpin, Zale Turpin would actually be a good fight, Artie was a Welter cum Middle, so was Ray, but Ray was tall and just as much a natural MW.

the point being there were so many of them, then, and there was little between them and Zale would make it hard for Ray and could beat him, but like I said Robinson would win more than not, just as he did with everyone!

 

Robinson was up at nine
Once he was on his feet the ref stalled but he was definitely up at nine

 

Hi kud hev bin ap et 4 , wot daz it mater et wich # hi woz ap et if hi got e 17 *** long kawnt ?

 

Well, that account differs sharply with those at Stillman's who said the count didn't start until after the ref walked Artie to his corner then back to the downed Robinson adding about seven seconds to the count. It appears from this man's view the next day that about that many seconds were afforded Ray but after he got up. Isn't that what happens alot though when stories get shared and retold, that in short order whole different "facts" happened? Comon, all of have heard such many times in our lifes to our amazements. Lets at least agree that Ray was given time he shouldn't have and it may have made a differance in the outcome.

 

S, now you are splitting hairs ! The fact of the matter is that as Artie Levine said, the powers that be wouldn't allow Robinson to lose in Cleveland...Ray Robinson could NOT lose and the referee made darn sure
he would not lose. I recall reading articles in the Ring Magazine about that
controversial bout, but Hurricane Sandy destroyed most of my priceless
boxing mags of that time...In Wikipedia, the same conclusion was given of that bout too...Even recently on HBO and Showtime bouts, the house favorite is given raw decisions...Well Robinson, the greatest all around fighter EVER was protected when he was poleaxed by the good but not great Artie Levine on Nov.6, 1946. Six weeks later Ray Robinson won the WW title from Tommy Bell...
P.S. And rest assured Artie Levine would have been obliterated by the prime Tony Zale...cheers...
PPS. And I will go out on a limb and say that SRR as a MW would have a hard time against the great crop of preWW2 middleweights like a prime Freddie Steele, Fred Apostoli, the murderous punching Al Hostak, Solly Kreiger, Ken Overlin, Billy Soose, prime Georgie Abrams etc...

 

Burt, Its a good conclusion that Artie was shorted but also a reasonable conclusion that the story of how it happened changed clearly as it was told and retold by "eyewitnesses" at Stillman's which if I remember is some of what this is about. On the other hand Slakka you have to admit also that the three sources you quoted not telling what happened after Ray got up didn't mean it didn't happen. Ahh human nature friends.

 

T, the fact that Artie Levine dropped Ray Robinson flat on his face and from the moment SRR was Floored til the referee Davis allowed Levine to tear into Robinson, was close to 20 seconds...These words from Artie Levine :
"Yes I was the first guy to knock Robinson out ! They gave him a long count. Ray Arcel himself was working my corner...In that round I pushed Robinson into his own corner, and unleashed a left hook to the jaw, that Robinson recalled, "flopped me like a fish ". Robinson fell on his face.
The referee Davis walked me to a neutral corner, and did not pick up the count til he returned to Robinson "...The fact that Robinson got a long count is accurate and never denied, the details vary...

 

My point has always been given the limited info thats available online,
(btw bert is referring to the AP report from toledo blade)
Robinson beat the count then received the benefit of an illegal standing count
Primary sources have yet to be cracked namely the Cleveland Plain Dealer and a couple others.
Im in the process of getting my hands on all of them.
I doubt we will discover any long count iow that Robinson was down for 10 or more