'Tony Zale would lick him' Graziano when asked about a SRR vs Zale match up

Idea. I can email you the pdf of the article?

 

cee senior bat

 

SENT :smoke

 

What is the deal with Zale being KO'ed in one round by "Jimmy Clark" two years before winning the title?

Robinson got a long count, then got up and put his man out. Nothing wrong with weathering a tough match. If we put a "L" on Robinson because of this fight fine, but this is obviously Robinson not at his best.

Zale never faced a man that was as fast on foot or hand as Robinson nor power-wise. This is still the same man who floored the just as tough and strong and Gene Fulmer. I have question about how would Zale handle Robinson when he start landing hard counter punches in combination.

Lamotta even with 15 pounds on Robinson was not able to keep him down nor, stop him from being effective.

 

Ok ok, i goofed on where the writer was from, and also you did get through to me your bottom line point this time which I admit is reasonable. Well done Burt.

 

I guess it depends on how you view Gene Fullmer. I saw a 40 year old Ray Robinson win a pretty lopsided fight vs Fullmer in their 3rd bout only to get a draw on the official cards.

IMV Fullmer was very good if not great and tough as anyone.

 

Not sure of the details. Zale obviously got caught cold. He KO'd Clark in the rematch.

Billy Conn, Nate Bolden, Georgie Abrams and Billy Soose weren't exactly slow either ;-)

I don't know that Robinson had superior power to Fred Apostoli or Al Hostak at middleweight. Hostak was a murderous punching middleweight. So SRR's power isn't going to be anything new to Zale. In fact it is Robinson who never faced a middleweight who hit as hard as Zale, so if anyone is going to be surprised by the other's power, it is Robinson.

That's a smart and reasonable question to ponder, one I do as well. But I ALSO ponder how SRR handles the power shots of Zale, who hit a hell of a lot harder than Fullmer.

True, but Jake also couldn't punch worth a darn (a paltry 30 KOs in 106 fights. Even little Fritzie Zivic mocked Jake's power). Yet he still managed to hurt and floor SRR. Makes me wonder how Ray would react to Zale's bombs.

 

Rugged? Absolutely. Hard-hitting? Absolutely not. More of a slapper and chopper. Fullmer was nowhere near Zale in terms of punching power.

 

Great post S..Time has a way of distorting the skills of fighters of years ago. Later generations are less truly aware of the relative class and reputations of the fighters of the 1940s and 1950s. For example today Gene Fullmer ,as tough as he was in his TIME would never have been compared to a Tony Zale, a Jake LaMotta, a Marcel Cerdan, who were in their primes only 10 years before...NEVER. I say this not to disparage
Fullmer a tough awkward battler, but a Tony Zale preWW2 or Marcel Cerdan
would present much heavier artillery for Robinson to overcome, without a shred of doubt...And with all due respect to the bullish Gene Fullmer, he would be certainly whipped by the likes of the middleweights of pre WW2, such as Tony Zale, Fred Apostoli, Al Hostak, Freddie Steele, Solly Kreiger,
Ken Overlin, MW Billy Conn, Georgie Abrams, or surely Charley Burley.
All of these guys at their bests, beats a Gene Fullmer and give the older
MW Ray Robinson all he can handle IMO...

 

Burt...any word on the Jimmy Clark 1 round KO on Zale in 38?

 

I believe that young Tony Zale was caught "cold" by Jimmy Clark and ko'd.
But shortly after, Zale ko'd Jimmy Clark twice to avenge the loss. Much the same happened in 1950 when the rising star Joey Giardello was absolutely
flattened by one left hook by an acquaintance of mine Harold Green, not known for his power...Zale became a star under the tutelage of Sam Pian and Art Winch who guided Barney Ross years before...And in my eyes at least, Ray Robinson without the "long count" was kod by Artie Levine in Cleveland, 1947.

 

If both KO's are equal lets throw them both out and say that they were both not at thier best. Zale was two years from winning the title. I understand two years is a long time in boxing but still, it counts if we are talking about im beating Robinson.

Are far as Zale being caugt cold. Robinson did get off the deck and KO his man Long count and all. And it is not like Robinson was always getting KO'ed or something. I would say that Levine delievered his best punch dropped Robbie, got robbed, but was not able to finish the job. He still should have finished it like Clark did.

 

JLP, I beg to differ on your saying that Ray Robinson wasn't at his best when he fought Artie Levine...In 1946 when Robinson fought Artie Levine he was at his zenith as a WW. Six weeks later SRR beat the very tough Tommy Bell for the title. Another point . Just before Robinson fought Levine, Robinson decisioned a very tough MW Ozzie Bulldog Harris in 10 rounds, and Tony Zale flattened Bulldog Harris in the very first round...
When they fought, for what it's worth...

 

Understood.

Is it fair to say that Ray was not at his best that night, the same as Zale wasn't his best on Clark KO1 night? If so, then that is only point I am making.

Robinson on his best night against a middleweight vs Zale at his best night as a middle. Robinson against Lamotta VI or Graziano looked pretty good, or even his one shot on Gene.

What great fight of Zale would you take him over Robinson?