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Name best heavyweight boxer of all time

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by beast boxer, Jul 2, 2013.

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Eric cantona Active Member Full Member

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Ali would beat clay

Eric cantona, Jul 7, 2013

#136

dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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Bald_Toad said: ↑

Rocky Marciano
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Id accept that.

dinovelvet, Jul 7, 2013

#137

dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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C.J. said: ↑

OK wise guy name one guy Lewis ducked??? You cannot there isn't one.
Bowe, Tyson & Holyfield avoided Lennox as long as they could.
Bowe blatantly renaged , Tyson allowed King to give Lennox $4 mil to step aside & let him fight Seldon next. Even Evander had the most crooked officiating on his side when he was forced to fight Lennox. A 100% in shape Lewis wa dominant over all.
The only reason Lewis never made Fighter of the Year was because he was a BRITISH Heavyweight If Lewis was a US fighter he would have beenatsch
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Dont agree. Lewis never fought an exciting enough fight to warrant a fight of the year award. Dont matter where he is from he never delivered a great fight....As far as ducking goes , Lewis was stripped by evey organization he held titles for. IBF,WBC and the WBA. This is an absolute fact.

dinovelvet, Jul 7, 2013

#138
dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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assasin said: ↑

you clown, Lewis would break Ali in half. Ali isn't coming close to competing with that reach and talent. throw in the size and it's a complete miss-match. Ali is an overrated boxer to say the least. it isn't happening in any way shape or form.

i'm not saying that Rahman would KO Ali, but Ali sure as hell has been beaten by fighters on the Rahman level. he's had many beatings from them as well.

oh, and Lewis didn't prepare properly for Rahman the first time around. judge him on the rematch when he was focused. it was a slaughter.
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A Tony Tucker who came out of rehab instead of a training camp gave Lewis all sort of problems. Lewis knocked him down but could not keep him down. A great? lmao.

dinovelvet, Jul 7, 2013

#139

anton Well-Known Member Full Member

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Muhammad ali. End of

anton, Jul 7, 2013

#140
dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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assasin said: ↑

they promised a fight with Tyson after the seldon fight. Tyson went back on his word and dropped the title.

for ****s sake!

i'm going to view you as nothing more than a know nothing troll from now on. you're clueless to a disgusting degree.
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Tyson didn't drop the title. The WBC dumped it when he hounored his contractual obligation with HBO to fight Holyfield. Lewis once again won his WBC belt out of the trash can.

dinovelvet, Jul 7, 2013

#141
rodney Boxing Junkie Full Member

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Valuev

rodney, Jul 7, 2013

#142

bigstinkybug Member Full Member

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vitali Klitsko is bigger and stronger than any heavyweight in history... there can be only one...he is the Cargan.

bigstinkybug, Jul 7, 2013

#143
Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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Vinegar Hill said: ↑

Another clueless cretin
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Loudon, Jul 7, 2013

#144
Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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assasin said: ↑

no, i'm afraid that's you. are you telling me that Louis or Ali would stand any sort of chance against Lewis? because if you are, you're clearly sitting in the clouds. Lewis would crush Joe in 1 or 2 rounds with absolutely no resistance coming back.

and Ali wouldn't be able to compete in terms of skill, size, reach or power. Lewis is the only fighter who has a real chance to KO Ali, but i'll be fair and just say that he'd get beat down like a dog for the full duration with KD's littered over the course of the fight and gets completely dominated. Ali wouldn't come close to having any sort of chance. to suggest otherwise is plain stupidity. Ali is an overrated boxer to say the least. against statues, he looked good. against a fighter with some sort of skill in there though, he either got beat or had a torrid time of it.

so please stop with the complete simpleton talk. i have enough of that already on this site as it is. :good
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Please, just STOP! atsch

Loudon, Jul 7, 2013

#145
C.J. Boxings Living Legend revered & respected by all Full Member

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bigstinkybug said: ↑

vitali Klitsko is bigger and stronger than any heavyweight in history... there can be only one...he is the Cargan.
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ROFLMAO A barely 80% ready Lennox Lewis kicked Vitali's ass , tore his face apart in a TKO in 6 win A 100% Lewis destroys the big robot
Ali in his prime would just play with Vitali tease & torment him till he quit on his stool AGAIN!!! Before you say Vitali had a shoulder injury & quit legitimately remember Ali fought Ken Norton for 10 ROUNDS with a BROKEN JAW!!! Now that's bravery. Vitali is too robotic only his size carries him through a very mediocre list of opponents.
Vitali is not in the same class as Ali or Lewis

C.J., Jul 7, 2013

#146

Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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Ipay4leavingNot said: ↑

If it is legacy then it has to go to Jack Johnson, 15 years undefeated beat all the best fighters. He beat guys who went on to beat dempsey. There was no better fighter than he, he wrestled with bulls, he was clever, started the trash talking, in and out, slick movement. He simply was the best boxer to lace up gloves. In a time where most boxers had teeth missing because of being hit, no mouth guards, smaller gloves, unlimited round battles, ropes were actually ropes and gloves were far less padded and the corner was a wood poll not covered with a nice soft covering, most boxers had scared up faces and jack johnson had barely a scratch and all his teeth. He was by far and away the greatest heavyweight fighter period. No one before or after him would stand a chance to beat him in his prime. He had to deal with alot more difficulties outside of the ring than any of the other boxers, he got regular hatemail, was attacked in the media for his race, when he would win white people would riot and kill people, he was threatened with serious death threats, people disliked him for marrying white women, the government was trying to lock him up. He was one of the most hated men in American history, he was the son of slaves and born during the civil war, he simply was the greatest boxer who ever lived. There could never possibly be someone as great as he. When will there ever be another great boxer whose parents were enslaved in America?

But more importantly Jack Johnson beat them all for 15 years he was the best, he beat Jeffries, fitzsimmons, burns, denver ed martin, small tall, powerful, clever, mover, plodder white, black blue Jack Johnson beat them all through and through. He was just too clever in the ring, boxing is a sport of intelligence. No matter if you put him in with ali, frazier, tyson, marciano, louis, charles, dempsey, foreman, norton, louis, k2, he'd beat them all. They'd never be able to land on him because he'd catch all their punches like willie mays catches baseballs. And sooner or later they'd stop punching once they can't land nothing or tire out from missing so much and Johnson would annihilate them with 1 swift punch in the 8-10th round. He could out dance and move Ali, he had more power than louis in his right hand, Johnson played with opponents and could knock them out at will. he was the ultimate in fighter and outfighter, he could punish you from anywhere. Johnson was lighting quick in his hands and had amazing power. If I wanted to make a perfect fighter it would be Jack Johnson. Muhammad Ali copied the anchor punch he used to knockout sonny liston from Jack Johnson. He was taught that punch by a mutual friend called stepin fetchit who Johnson had showed the punch. Jack Johnson invented a good deal of the punches and defensive maneuvers that exist in boxing many which are almost never used.

Consider that Nat Fleischer, the founder of Ring Magazine, who saw Johnson fight and those up to the Ali era, said, in his book Black Dynamite Vol 4., p. 6), “Jack Johnson boxed on his toes, could block from most any angle, was lightning fast on his feet, could feint an opponent into knots…he possessed everything a champion could hope for punch, speed, brains, cleverness, boxing ability and sharp-shooting.”

Fleischer also reported in 1958, that Johnson’s “mastery of ring science, his ability to block, counter, and feint, are still unexcelled.”

You have to understand in boxing everything comes from the jab. And guys like Johnson never allowed you to get it off. He would utterly dismantle top fighters like Klitschko and Larry holmes by taking their jab and making it a non factor. While those guys might try to use their size to lean in on Johnson it would be a gross error because johnson's plan was exactly that because there was and never has been a superior in fighter than Johnson.

To put it in perspective, fat old Jack Johnson stopped Fireman Jim Flynn in 9 rounds, who called Johnson racial epitets and was head butting him because Johson was tying him up on the inside and punching him at will. Flynn could not land nothing back because this is how good of an infighter Johnson was. Just a few years later fireman Jim Flynn destroyed Jack Dempsey in 1 round less than 2 years. Dempsey who is almost always ranked in the top 10 and often top 5. Just gives you an example of how great Johnson was.

Jack Johnson had every trick in the book, and alot of it has to be credited to choynski. Now he was brought to knock Johnson down a notch because Johnson was viewed to be too ****y. But since fighting was illegal in texas back then they both got locked up and choynski who was more experienced as Johnson was just starting out boxing, taught Johnson alot of tricks in the book. Choynski was one of the smaller guys so he needed alot of tricks as he gave jim jeffries and alot of the guys of his time tough fights. Johnson combined his natural talents with choynskis new moves and he was simply the greatest boxer ever. Either 1 was deadly enough but the combination of the 2 was unbeatable. Whether it was the 6'6 1/2, 240 pound 84 inch reach Denver Ed Martin, who was called the "colorado giant"and the man with the "best footwork in the business", he lasted a total of 2 rounds against Johnson.

Jack Dempsey said of Johnson, “He was the greatest catcher of punches that ever lived (glove blocker). And he could fight all night. He was a combination of Jim Corbett and Louis. I’m glad I didn’t have to fight him.”

Trevor Wignall agrees saying, "He could box as well as fight. He was a tremendously hard hitter, while, for a man his size, he was amazingly swift on his feet."

Charley Rose who saw both Johnson and Ali fight said, (July 1966 Ring), "Johnson would have caught Clay's jabs like Willie Mays catches a baseball." Ali’s lack of properly placed parrying hand to block a jab (he held his right hand out to the side when he jabbed) would allow Johnson to counter Ali's jab. Johnson’s superior defense and technical superiority would offset some of Ali’s natural gifts of speed, and quick reflexes. When Ali made a mistake Johnson had the hand speed to exploit it with a quick counter. Observors such as Archie Moore and Eddie Futch also picked Johnson in a dream fight against Ali. It would be a very interesting fight.

Nat Fleischer rated Johnson as the greatest heavyweight up to the time of his death in 1972. He picked Johnson in a dream fight over Joe Louis.

That is right, someone who actually knew boxing very well and saw Ali, Louis, Dempsey and Johnson and just about every boxer who is considered potential for the greatest ever fight, ranked Johnson the greatest.

John Durant wrote in The Heavyweight Champions of Johnson, “He was a genius in the ring. He was a flawless boxer with an almost perfect defense, and he could hit hard with either hand. A superb counter puncher, he was never off balance, always in position to hit, and he was a master of the art of feinting."

Johnson was simply the best boxer in the heavyweight division to laceup gloves. If you do not see that, you are either bias by ali's razzle dazzle or infatuated by joe louis' political elements. Politally ali and louis are bigger, but as boxers, and just in the ring, no one comes close to Johnson.
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A great post!

I watched Unforgivable Blackness a few months ago, and I found it fascinating. :good

Loudon, Jul 7, 2013

#147
assasin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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dinovelvet said: ↑

Dont agree. Lewis never fought an exciting enough fight to warrant a fight of the year award. Dont matter where he is from he never delivered a great fight....As far as ducking goes , Lewis was stripped by evey organization he held titles for. IBF,WBC and the WBA. This is an absolute fact.
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yeah, you're a troll. definitely.

either that or you're some sort of saddo!

assasin, Jul 7, 2013

#148
assasin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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dinovelvet said: ↑

A Tony Tucker who came out of rehab instead of a training camp gave Lewis all sort of problems. Lewis knocked him down but could not keep him down. A great? lmao.
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yeah, Lewis isn't a great for not knocking out Tucker.

Troll.

assasin, Jul 7, 2013

#149
assasin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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dinovelvet said: ↑

Tyson didn't drop the title. The WBC dumped it when he hounored his contractual obligation with HBO to fight Holyfield. Lewis once again won his WBC belt out of the trash can.
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atsch wrong again, Dino.

i won't waste any more time with you ever again.

Troll.

assasin, Jul 7, 2013

#150

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