How much better could Pep 'n SRR have been...

Interesting question on the strength training. Bruce Lee's use of lighter weights done quickly was an advent in fighting arts and boxing included as up to then it was largely thought they would only bulk up and slow down. Willy could have used a little more muscle but Ray at his best was something you wouldn't mess with.

 

Pep would've been about the same.

Ray would have been a 6' bantamweight. God help us.

 

I do tend to think "Öld Testament" discipline and dedication, Serving a proper apprenticeship, and not being wrapped in today's Media friendly cotton wool , helped these guys reach their full potential, Modern nutrition ? its probably hard for many contemporary fighters to ignore the Junk food outlets on seemingly every corner, They used to say a Hungry fighter makes the best fighter...
although each case/person on their own merits, those older generation top-liners
did seem a tough talented bunch, I do not think Willie or Sugar Ray would have prospered from modern methods...would a pep who felt stronger have been less elusive and consequently hit more... ? as a loose example i remember Meldrick Taylor starting out as a quick-silver performer..but later on had bulked-up...erroneously thought he was a puncher...and suffered the consequences.
Other sports may boast quicker times and longer distances...but Boxing..a punch on the chin is a punch on the chin, i think those old Masters could give it and take it just as well as the modern masters...

 

Nope not necessary. Boxing doesn't need "modern strength training and nutrition". Which is code for weight lifting and IV drips to make weight. And boxers with great physiques who cannot even take a punch and peds and doping.

Seriously people need to chill out with modern nutrition, we have more fat people now than any point at history, we have more fat boxers than ever who cannot even cut weight because of all the chemicals in the food. Modern nutrition my but, people use to eat fried food and steaks, smoke big cigars, drink like a horse and fought better than today.

Modern strength training is frank bruno, who got beat by tyson badly. What is modern strength traiing lifting weights, which ruins your fast twitch muscle fibres making your punches weaker. Old timers understood this. You want to climb a mountain you practice climbing a mountain, you want to run a mile you practice running a mile, you want to box then you box, you don't swing a bat and hit a tire in a gym like miguel cotto

 

Ah P, I love that phrase "fast twitching muscles", which I first heard used describing Jack Dempsey and later his smaller counterpart Roberto Duran...
Willie Pep and Ray Robinson were WHO THEY WERE because of their
unique attributes...If Pep were more muscular he wouldn't have been as elusive, and if Ray Robinson bulked up with "modern " methods, he
wouldn't have been as dominating as a middleweight. Kudos...

 

Getting strong isn't a new concept. Fighters of all walks have been doing it forever. Whether it was with barbells and dumbbells, pulleys, Indian clubs or chopping down trees fighters have been getting in shape to fight for a long time...certainly longer than we've been around. I think too much emphasis nowadays is put on "modern" as if the tried and true ways don't apply anymore. One trainer once said "You can't compare fighting to other sports" and to a certain extent I agree. I think it all boils down to the individual. Ray Robinson looks pretty damn good to me on film and he trained the old fashioned way. What could he have done differently to improve as a fighter? Kettlebell swings? What's most important is whether or not the individual can fight. can he take a good punch? Does he have the mental strength to get up off the canvas and continue when decked? Is he willing to put in all the hours of training to hone his boxing skills? If a man can do all that he has the potential to be a good fighter. If he can't...or won't then any type of training probably won't help. I'm not saying that modern training methods don't have any place in boxing but too often we tend to try and reinvent the wheel.

 

Not much realy.

Modern training methods are more of an issue for fighters who don't have to make a weight limit.

 

I think modern training and nutrition is most effective for the less skilled opponents. It wont help, the likes of Robinson and Pep, but it will help their opponents, meaning that some of the guys who they outclass with skills, might hit harder wear them out more by grappling and leaning with their weight etc. Maybe even be quicker to the punch and have better stamina (though those last two can probably be debated). Meaning, that the gulf between the greats and the not so greats will be greatly lessened. Whether it is enough to allow the not so great fighters to overtake the greats is doubtful but debateable. But in theory, at the very least, Pep and Robinson have little if any to gain but their opposition do. What this means is that the gulf will not be as big and in theory Pep and Robinson would not stand out as well as they did and therefore the answer is that it would have greatly reduced their all time standing.

 

Not a lick, outside of PEDs. It's mostly hokus-pokus.

 

I don't think they would be as good because they wouldn't have the same quality of instruction at any point in their careers. In todays game, it seems to me that strength and conditioning coaches have overtaken the boxing trainer in importance, and the emphasis is on the physical side. The mental and technical aspects of the game are given the short end because nobody seems to teach them well any more.
Also, it takes good quality opposition to bring out the best in a fighter, if he has 'the best' in him. In his first three years Robinson fought Jackie Wilson, LaMotta, Zivic, Angott, and Servo, not to mention a capable (judging by his record and the quality of guys he fought again and again) Izzy Janazzo. Some of them many times each. That's two or three modern careers of fights with good fighters.
So Pep would be a flyweight, climbing into the ring at a buffed out 135, huffing, puffing and gett5ing hit while swinging for the fences. And Robinson would start out at 130, never fight at less than 155, win titles in 7 weight classes in a 32 fight career, and impress nobody in so doing. Except maybe the crew of which ever network showed his fights.

 

Better is such a subjective term. The boxing climate was different back then -- fighters fought way more often, were less well-trained soldiers and more generals, and fought with less extensive information on some of their opponents compared to what's available now.

SRR and Pep were absolute champions in that environment. Stone cold nuts, were no better. The modern elite game is geared towards a different goal -- a single peak on a single night against a single well-researched opponent. Could they do that? Sure. They'd still be great. But considering how the stars had to align for them to be as great as they was, it's a viable thought that it is actually a less successful fighter in that era that would benefit from a change in circumstances, instead of these two that thrived so.

Someone that couldn't mentally cope with the lack of info, or whose body couldn't keep up with the constant abuse. Heck, the mental strain of keeping up a pace of thirty fights a year alone is enough to make a fighter perform less than his best.