Who's the GOAT at SMW?

:good

 

Yes, it did take skill and balls to move up and fight at the higher weights.

So why are you then saying that he didn't prove much?

What do you mean he refused to unify them?

Ruiz wasn't a cherry pick at HW.

People here are praising Joe's achievements, and criticising Roy. atsch

Roy couldn't unify against Benn and Liles at SMW, so he MOVED up to LHW.

At LHW, he fought everyone apart from DM. When he couldn't get DM or a Hopkins rematch, he MOVED up to HW.

Joe couldn't get the Ottke unification, and had the chance to move up to LHW.

What did he do?

Did he move up?

No he didn't. He STAYED!

He stayed, and it took him TEN years to unify.

He fought at SMW for 14 years, and had to kill himself to make weight for the last 4.

Any fighter who's great, who fights in the same division for FOURTEEN years, should be the best ever at the weight, with the best stats.

Roy could have STAYED at SMW, but when things didn't go his way, he dropped his belt, and moved up for a fresh challenge.

Yet here you are saying he didn't prove much.

Well, he proved more than Joe did.

Dominating Ruiz at HW at 34, after 50 fights, was a far better achievement than beating Kessler at SMW.

 

Delete.

 

Loudon and atberry - while you're both gentlemen debaters who greatly admire your favourite boxers, your bizarre rationalizations are getting more nonsensical.

 

Ha!

He never even fought in Roy's weight class.

Yeah, he must have wanted him REAL BAD!

And this was after he'd said:

"I'm not chasing Roy Jones."

"I don't want tough fights."

"I think I could give Roy a great fight, but I know what my CAPABILITIES are, and I'd want the Crown Jewels."



Who in 2002, was going to pay Joe big money?

NOBODY! :good

 

Lewis turned down 30m to fight Roy.

What is known about Roy now was not known then and Lewis saw him as a big risk, thus turning down the biggest purse in the history of boxing.
Losing meant more to Lewis than money.

 

How would Collins have beaten Roy in his 20's?

Styles make fights.


Did Collins have great footwork?

Did he have really fast hands?

Did he have a great defence?

Did he have great reflexes?

Did he have a significant reach advantage?

Was he technically superior?

Was he taller?

Was he a southpaw?


The answer to all of the above is no.

Collins was a tough warrior, who would have fought anyone. But the truth is, he wasn't a great fighter, and he didn't have a style that would have troubled Roy. He had a will of iron and a granite chin, but that wouldn't have been enough.

Roy was so fast, the fight had gotten a 12 round decision for Roy written all over it.

 

Eubank wanted nothing to do with Roy at SMW, but when he came back he wanted a payday. Roy had got bigger fish to fry then. Eubank had lost to Collins twice, and Roy had got Griffin and Hill in his sights.

 

The only reason Joe is the greatest SMW in history is because Roy LEFT the division.

He never ducked anybody?

He passed up on the opportunity of fighting in America, and at LHW against the likes of Roy and DM, by instead staying and fighting the Sobot's and the Branko's of the world for the most part, while struggling to make weight.

Why is it such a great achievement?

Yes he unified the division.

But it took him TEN years, and he fought there for FOURTEEN years, while other great fighters used it as a stepping stone, or they bypassed it altogether.

Roy could have ruled at SMW for years. But when he couldn't unify, he moved up.

Roy beating Toney like he did, then unifying at LHW, and fighting at HW, eclipses ANYTHING that Joe achieved. :good

 

Roy did not struggle badly.

How can you say that when he stopped both of them?

 

Eubank had a close fight with Thornton, and everyone is respectful.

Roy beats him, and it's:

"Great! Roy beat up a mailman, who's next a sanitation worker?"

 

Thornton was a BS stoppage, stopped mainly because he was holding his shoulder.

Malinga wasn't very good, Jones had to feint him out of position and throw a leaping left uppercut counter from across the ring.

 

Thornton was shot to bits against Jones. He had come out of retirement and wasn't looking half the fighter he was against Sosa, Eubank and Toney. Still, Jones struggled to land.

 

He officially ducked Nunn, the mandatory challenger for his WBC title - choosing to give up the title instead, knowing he'd be made to look bad and possibly/probably lose.

 

When Roy was trying to unify at 175, and Collins hadn't fought for two years?

HBO didn't want the fight, they wanted a Jones/Johnson fight instead.

Boxing is a business.

Put yourself in Roy's shoes.

Either fight Reggie Johnson to unify at 175, or fight a retired guy, who'd never fought at that weight.

There was no money, no belt, and no interest apart from Collins and his fans.

I admire Collins, and I respect his toughness. I respect that he wanted Roy badly, when a lot of other guys didn't.

That deserves respect.

But he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

If he'd have had a major belt at SMW or LHW, I'm sure Roy would have fought him.

But he only had the lightly regarded WBO at SMW, which Roy wasn't interested in, because it wasn't respected, and he couldn't make fights with Benn and Liles to obtain the others.