Who's the GOAT at SMW?

Hard to say, really depends how you view it

 

You are just taking a small part of a big comment and saying something not related and not even commenting on skills and if you rate Hopkins for how little he did in that fight...

 

Not quite as it seems, didnt DM have to give up his IBF & WBA belts? Check it out.
DM was unified WBA IBF WBO LHW champ and beat Rocchigiani who had claim to the WBC title.
Its not the belts its the fighter. So if Ward dropped his WBA title and some other SMW won it and then unified the WBC belt which Ward lost, would that mean ward is not the man at SMW and that fighter shouldnt have to face Ward for that claim. Interesting you feel that way

 

After that fight I viewed Hopkins as a very good fighter.. He had more sucess finding Jones with right hands than anyone would for years.

 

Really it comes down to whether you rate Lopez/Arce/Alvarez/Choi as the better h2h roster or Jones/Michalzewski/Johnson/Tarver.

It's a tough call indeed.

 

It would depend on who the fighter was, but being as how Ward is rated as high as #2 Pound for Pound, it wouldn't be likely..

The Jones-DM case was a unique scenario.. You won't find one like it in history or hopefully not the future.

 

Hard to say?

How about from 1999-2003?

Roy, DM, Hill, Griffin, Del Valle, Roch, Nunn, Johnson, Gonzalez, Harding, Tarver, Woods.

Or

Joe, Reid, Woodhall, Liles, Ottke, Brewer, Mitchell, Beyer, Vanderpool, Lucas, Tate, Echols, Siaca.


It's a tough one, I'll have to sleep on it.

 

:good

 

DM had nothing to do with the WBC belt.

He cheated disgracefully against Roch, a year before Roy vacated it. He then rematched Roch in 2000.

Your Ward analogy is poor.

If Ward was stripped, and then another fighter won his belts, beat common opponents more emphatically, and then Ward refused to fight him with some bull**** excuse, then I would say that the other guy would become the MAN. :good

 

What do you think was the tougher weight IB?

1999-2003

LHW or JLHW?

 

Also, the other guy in Ward's weight collecting all the belts would have to be P4P #1 to put in in a proper perspective.

I would be pretty quick to call Mayweather the man when he moves up a weight and unifies there.

 

Dawson's biggest W came against an 48 years old man. Hell Dawson even lost to Pascal and now just got KO against Stevenson, an american hype job. Kessler & Froch would end Dawson in 5 rounds max

 

Exactly!

 

bailey,

Please STOP pawning me, I can't take it anymore!

I don't know what Monzon's circumstances were. But Joe could have fought better opposition at LHW than at SMW.

When he couldn't unify with Ottke, was was the point in staying at SMW?

Ha! The king of spin at his finest!

HE said he was struggling. HE said he had to starve himself and kill himself in the welsh mountains to make weight. He should have gone to LHW a long time before he did. He was saying in 2004, there was nothing left to achieve, and he knew he had to move up and fight in America, and he could take his speed up etc.

It's you who NEVER allows for circumstances. We're not talking about Hopkins, we're talking about Joe. Hopkins had HUGE fights against Tito and De La Hoya, while Joe turned his back on America and LHW, to fight subpar opposition.

I said he could have gone up to try and fight him. He could have moved up the rankings, got people talking etc. He could even have tried to fight DM to get to Roy. But he wasn't interested.

Your black and white stats don't mean anything.

I said 99-2006.

Hopkins was there in 2006. If Toney had left, fair enough. Of course Tarver was around, and he and Griffin were good fighters. You've blown nothing out of the water. From 99-2006, Roy, DM, Hill, Nunn, Roch, Reggie Johnson, Hopkins and Tarver were there, and it was stronger than the SMW division that Joe fought in.

Ha! It doesn't matter how long they stayed where.

Did Toney leave SMW to go to LHW? Yes.

Did Nunn leave SMW to go to LHW? Yes.

Did Roy leave SMW to go to LHW? Yes.

They all passed through the division and didn't stay long.

Hopkins bypassed it altogether.

It was a stepping stone for great fighters.

Only Joe has fought there for 14 years.

Roy could have done that, but he was more AMBITIOUS!

Toney had nothing to prove. He'd already gotten in the ring with Mike McCallum, Reggie Johnson, Michael Nunn, and a peak version of Roy. Do you think Joe would have fought someone like Jirov?

You have shown me NOTHING!

I'm certain that Ward will move up. Froch doesn't really need to, because he's got potential rematches with Kessler and Ward. The SMW division has got some good fighters in it. There's possibly big domestic clashes ahead with De Gale and Groves, and Froch's circumstances are different to what Joe's were. Before Kessler and Lacy came on the scene, Joe was fighting nobodies, in a division that nobody seemed to care about.

I would only slate Froch, if he was younger, and there was great fights to be made at LHW, and nothing much for him at SMW. Froch obviously isn't as good as Joe was, but he's got more ambition than Joe had. He's always looking for good fights. You'd never hear Carl say "I'm not looking for tough fights."

If that would have happened, everyone would have been wanting a Ward - Bute fight. I don't see how Bute's circumstances are the same as what Joe's were after he couldn't unify with Ottke.

That's right. He obviously wasn't ready to move up to LHW. But he'll have to soon, because there's nothing really keeping him here, unless he fights Froch again or Groves and De Gale continue to make progress.

 

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