Big daddy was 42-1. He was arguably the best HW from 92-95. The only blemish on his record is to a probable ATG in Holyfield. He was 2-1 (arguably 3-0) vs Evander. Yet you never hear his name as a potential top 10 ATG (I personally don't rate him there either)....and hardly hear it in top 15 conversations as well. His record is impressive...His best wins supercede anything Tyson or Liston can boast of IMO...He avenged his only blemish...IMO he does fairly well in mythical prime H2H matchups....Does he warrent consideration as a top 10 guy (even if he does not make the cut?...Should he only be considered as a top 15 or top 20 guy??? What's your impression of Big daddy's legacy?
Riddick Bowe's career accomplishments are very good overall, but placing him in the top 10 is a bit of a stretch. I also disagree that he was 3-0 against Holyfield. He definately lost the second fight, and was facing one of the worst versions of Holy in the third match. Additionally, I don't believe that his best accomplishments beat those of Tyson's or Liston's. He also ducked the most important challenge of his career in Lennox Lewis, and should have been beaten against Golata ( though I believe he was past it, and Golata fought dirty. ) Lastly, his career basically ended by the time he was around 30. Riddick looked great in most of his fights though. He only lost once to an all time great who he defeated twice, and was never Ko'd in some 44 fights. He defeated a fair number of prospects, fringe contenders, and veterans who I think were decent at the time he fought them. Head to head, I think he might do fairly well against some of the household greats, but fantasy matchups can't be used to give a guy a better rating. I think top 20 is fair, and I'm only rating him that low because his list of quality wins was somewhat short.
Good points...I rate him around 18-20 (but think he does better H2H..but who can prove that???). Do you think avoiding Lewis hurts him the most? I don't believe he was scared or ducked him, although his management may have led him to... any evidence to show why Bowe avoided lewis?
For me he left a few unanswered questions. We never saw an in shape Bowe take on one of the better punchers of the division for example.
I think the decision to not face Lennox Lewis was made by Rock Newman and not himself. Newman saw how Bowe was beaten by Lewis in the amateurs, and additionally saw the chilling performance that he gave against a very live Razor Ruddock. Newman probably felt he was protecting his prize bread winner, and figured that he could get some easy paydays against fringe contenders until holyfield was ready for a rematch. They originally signed to fight Ray Mercer and marketed as a chance for Bowe to avenge a loss against an old olympic rival. Mercer blew the opportunity by choking against Ferguson. Although I think Bowe had good reason to fear Lewis, it was likely not his decision to pass up that fight, and in the long run, it was very damaging to his career. Of course, he at least has the claim to never being knocked out and has 2 wins over Holyfield, something that might not have panned out had he fought Lewis in 1993.
I don't hand out a lot of points for potential in this game. But having said that the ones he does get, plus what he did with Hollyfield (who I have at #12) gets him into the 20, yes.
This is how I understand it. In addition to the facts you have listed, Newman saw losing as the disaster, not the figures a fight with Lewis and then a rematch could bring. Shame.
I have him around 16, marking against him is: 1. Never facing Lennox Lewis, Tyson, Mercer, Morrison, Tucker, Ruddock, etc etc 2. Consequent weak resume outside of the Holyfield trilogy 3. The wins against Golota were all but losses, Bowe was past prime but Lennox would KO this same Golota in 1 round 4. Very short reign at the top 5. Disputed decision against Tubbs which may have been a gift 6. Never faced a devastating puncher
It's rather difficult to assess weather or not Newman did him any favors. On one hand, he got his fighter through a 9 year career and 44 fights with only a single loss and a fair amount of money. On the otherhand, he deprived him a potentially greater legacy. Newman was a very unlikeable figure in my opinion. Very obnoxious. But, he was probably no more or less ethical than the other men running the show.
Riddick Bowe might be one of the most chalanging boxers to rank. He has ATG talent faced good compotion and if you conseder the WBO of the mid 90's to be a ligitimet tittle he is a two time world champion/tittlest. On the other hand with the exception of Holyfield he did not face the bigest names of his time and famously ducked Lenox Lewis (a fight that in my opinion he would have won from 92-95)
Karma. Head to head, Bowe looks very strong although he is a bit untested against punchers. But resume-mise, i don't think he can rank higher than top15.
Top 12-16 for me. How many other all time greats have a win over a prime other all time great? Very few. Bowe has one. Most rate Holyfield over Bowe. The 2-1 edge, and for Bowe makes it hard for me to agree with this.
Bowe is 1-1 vs a Prime holyfield. thats even stevens. by 1995 Holyfield was very ill for the 3rd fight, and was clearly not in his prime anymore.