Log in or Sign up

Has the skill set declined in heavyweight boxing?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by choklab, Jul 10, 2013.

Page 4 of 5

OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon.

36,427

39,935

Aug 28, 2012

choklab said: ↑

There never was a need for even the tallest heavyweights to be 240-260 pounds. Nature has not given us 260 pound heavyweights. They come in that heavy because they want to. It is a combination of bodybuilding and older men who never would have been able to compete unless the pace had slowed so much prolonging their careers against slow oafs.

There is no such thing as a natural 240-260 pound heavyweight who trains the same way as fighters from lower divisions. Show me a world class, athletic 260 pound heavyweight under seven foot tall and i will show you a tall guy who built himself up.

Riddick bowe fought as low as 216lb, Lewis as low as 224 so there was never any need for 240-260 unless the training changed to deliberately add extra mass.

Think about it, traditional boxing training burns calories. I saw an interview one time where a guy asked Riddick bowe how to become a heavyweight and he said something like "you do have to train hard but you have to eat lots of eggs and rest to hold onto your weight. you need to hold onto your weight or you burn too much away"
Click to expand...

According to boxrec the lowest Bowe weighed was 218 in his second fight and 219 1/2 for his sixth. Other than that he's pretty consistently around 230 which makes sense for a 6'5" guy with 81 inches of reach.

210 is a trim weight for a 6'3" fighter like Ali who when he was fat or putting on muscle weight would balloon up to 225. Likewise, when George Foreman 6'4" was thin and fighting in the 70s he'd weigh around 220 lbs. 230 is the right fighting weight for a 6'5" boxer like Riddick Bowe and Lennox Lewis. Guys like the Klitschkos who are 6'6" or 6'7" should totally be around 240 lbs. It would be ridiculous to expect them to fight at 215-220 like you are suggesting and they would look like skeletons.

It's the 6'1"-6'3" guys who bulk up to 250 that are the fat body builders making the heavyweight division look bad.

OvidsExile, Jul 17, 2013

OvidsExile, Jul 17, 2013

#46

janitor VIP Member

71,973

27,959

Feb 15, 2006

Tommo said: ↑

You compare a virtual bum in Carl Williams and one of the most punch weak guys of all time in Ernie Terrell to Klits and Lewis? That might satisfy a nostalgist to read but it's not doing your argument any favours realistically.
Click to expand...

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

janitor, Jul 17, 2013

janitor, Jul 17, 2013

#47

choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

27,676

7,669

Dec 31, 2009

Ovid***ile said: ↑

According to boxrec the lowest Bowe weighed was 218 in his second fight and 219 1/2 for his sixth. Other than that he's pretty consistently around 230 which makes sense for a 6'5" guy with 81 inches of reach.

210 is a trim weight for a 6'3" fighter like Ali who when he was fat or putting on muscle weight would balloon up to 225. Likewise, when George Foreman 6'4" was thin and fighting in the 70s he'd weigh around 220 lbs. 230 is the right fighting weight for a 6'5" boxer like Riddick Bowe and Lennox Lewis. Guys like the Klitschkos who are 6'6" or 6'7" should totally be around 240 lbs. It would be ridiculous to expect them to fight at 215-220 like you are suggesting and they would look like skeletons.

It's the 6'1"-6'3" guys who bulk up to 250 that are the fat body builders making the heavyweight division look bad.
Click to expand...

But the Klitschkos were skeletons as amateurs. Why was this? was it because the cardiovascular training required for tournament boxing had to allow their bodies to match the faster pace? Did they train down to that weight or were they naturally more slight of frame?

The klitschkos work very hard and have the experience and drive to dominate the division as they do. They are always in excellent shape and show remarkable discipline. They have mastered a fool proof blueprint of how to keep winning by concentrating on controlling distance and pace at all costs. It works and good for them but a win is a win to them and they have enhanced their bulk whatever way you look at it.

Bowe and Lewis should have stayed under 230. It encouraged the fetish for bulking up.

You are right about fat 6'1'' - 6'3" bodybuilders bodybuilders making the division look bad. I agree. If you dont include vlad and vit, wlthout shoes as much as 80% or more of the contenders are either 6'1 or under 6'3" fat bodybuilders who could fight better at 210 or so.

choklab, Jul 17, 2013

choklab, Jul 17, 2013

#48
OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon.

36,427

39,935

Aug 28, 2012

choklab said: ↑

But the Klitschkos were skeletons as amateurs. Why was this? was it because the cardiovascular training required for tournament boxing had to allow their bodies to match the faster pace? Did they train down to that weight or were they naturally more slight of frame?

The klitschkos work very hard and have the experience and drive to dominate the division as they do. They are always in excellent shape and show remarkable discipline. They have mastered a fool proof blueprint of how to keep winning by concentrating on controlling distance and pace at all costs. It works and good for them but a win is a win to them and they have enhanced their bulk whatever way you look at it.

Bowe and Lewis should have stayed under 230. It encouraged the fetish for bulking up.

You are right about fat 6'1'' - 6'3" bodybuilders bodybuilders making the division look bad. I agree. If you dont include vlad and vit, wlthout shoes as much as 80% or more of the contenders are either 6'1 or under 6'3" fat bodybuilders who could fight better at 210 or so.
Click to expand...

The Klitschko's, Bowe, and Lewis all weighed less in the amateurs and bulked up over the course of their career; so does everybody. That's the difference between being an amateur and a professional. Amateurs are children who have a little way to grow, and don't have the time to spend getting into the kind of condition that a professional would. Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather both got heavier over the course of their careers too. When the Klitschko's were younger they spent half of their day at school, now that they are world class athletes they spend most of their day in the gym. Why wouldn't they put on more muscle from the shape they were in at 18?

I do agree with you however that a number of the smaller heavyweights are just fat, bulked up, and would do better fighting at a more natural 215 or so the way David Haye does and Holyfield did. Chisora, Solis, and Arreola need to go on a diet. However, Tyson Fury, David Price, and Robert Helenius would die if you made them fight at 220.

OvidsExile, Jul 17, 2013

OvidsExile, Jul 17, 2013

#49

sugarkills Active Member Full Member

1,401

19

Sep 14, 2004

Skill set has declined in BOXING. The Truth.

sugarkills, Jul 19, 2013

sugarkills, Jul 19, 2013

#50

(You must log in or sign up to reply here.)

Page 4 of 5