Who's the GOAT at SMW?

Sven Ottke. You KO him, he still wins a decision. No blueprint.

 

thats makes me scary

 

Why didn't Davis offer DM a Jones fight? Why didn't HBO screen any of DM's fights instead of pretending he didn't exist? Maybe if DM was actually offered a fight, even on a Jones undercard he may have took it - though to the yanks DM would still be some Polish guy with a name they could neither spell or pronounce. Do you really think HBO would do a complete U-turn and instead of claiming Jones had no rivals, start trying to hype up DM ?

It's common knowledge Murad Muhammad talks nonsense. He said $1.5m, whilst Davis said DM could earn $4m per fight at home. Which is it?

Roy is talking out of his arse as usual. He also said he offered Collins a fight. His camp claimed they offered Benn 3m for a fight. Both were lies. DM was never offered a fight in the u.s. Why would he box in the u.s. when he was never even offered a fight there??

DM-Jones was a far easier sell in Germany. DM was the champion, hugely popular, and Jones was obviously also well known there. Boxing is headline news in Germany. Bigger, more knowledgeable crowds, DM on pay-tv there, Jones still has his own tv money, & Germans had more than enough money to stage it, only Jones replies to offers by suggesting a ludicrous purse, which he knew would price him out.

You must have repeated about 10 times that DM didn't want a Jones fight, despite Jones always doing the ducking.

Germany is no worse than England or Las Vegas for bad decisions. There was never a question of it happening in Germany only because Jones didn't want it

 

Joe.Boxer,

Seriously, what are you talking about?

Kerry Davis was under pressure to deliver HBO a big fight for Roy.

He could never get hold of Kohl to discuss anything.

So he came up with a proposal. To stage a double header where DM came to America and fought in front of the U.S. fans with Roy on the same card. Then obviously if both fighters won, there would have been a fight at the end of it. The U.S. fans had hardly seen DM. He'd never fought in the U.S. before and they'd only seen a few clips of him. It made perfect business sense. The proposal was turned down flat with a bull**** excuse. So what the hell are you talking about saying "Maybe if they'd offered DM a fight, even on Roy's undercard, he may have took it"? That's exactly what HAPPENED!

So everyone is lying? Roy, Murad, Davis and Brad Jacobs?

He was offered a fight on a double header. atsch

The crowds have nothing to do with anything. Otherwise nobody would fight at the MGM in front of just 16,000 fans. Roy never had intention of going to Germany, and why should he have had to? He was the unified champ, and the best fighter in the world. HBO were putting the money up. Why don't you believe they offered him $5M? You can see what DM's intentions were after he'd be wrongfully stripped. Apart from a Roch rematch and Griffin who'd already been destroyed by Roy earlier, go and look at who he was fighting. He was obviously never bothered about fighting in the U.S. he was content defending the WBO belt for decent money against B and C class opposition.

How was he ducking exactly? He paid Brad Jacobs to meet with Davis to try and make the fight. If Kohl hadn't have turned down the proposal of the double header, the fight would have taken place. Now look it from DM's perspective. He'd been wrongfully stripped of two titles, and he'd seen Roy unify the division, and be declared the man. He then gets the opportunity to fight on a double header, with a fight afterwards for huge money and for every 175 belt there was. You would have assumed that he'd have jumped at the chance. But it was turned down flat. So what does that say to you?? If he wanted to fight in America, and he wanted Roy, and he wanted his old belts back, then why would Kohl have said no?? There's only one answer to that question. He obviously didn't want the fight. We got a bull**** excuse saying "Dariusz isn't an undercard fighter, he's a proud champion etc"

So he passes up on trying to unify the division, and goes and fights Richard Hall TWICE! He's too proud to fight on a double header, but he's perfectly ok with fighting Hall twice, King, Lakatos and De Grandis? Ha! It was a joke! Wake the **** up! If you don't believe Roy and Murad, that's fine. But Kerry Davis wasn't part of Roy's camp. He worked exclusively for HBO and went out of his way to make the fight. Davis would have absolutely no reason to lie. He says Kohl was never available, not even via the phone, and they didn't even receive an offer to get the ball rolling. So take into consideration what Kerry Davis said, and go and look at DM's resume from 98 onwards, after he'd been stripped after the Virgil Hill fight. Zenner, Magi, Piper, Biarslanov, Thadzi and Prince etc. It's staring you in the face, that he didn't want to risk his cosy WBO set up that he'd got going.

Roy made it crystal clear from the outset that he wasn't going to Germany.

 

First of all, stop waffling and heavily edit your posts down.

No, that wasn't what happened. After 2 years of Kohl trying to make the fight, suddenly the Jones camp, after a miraculous U-turn, can't even contact him ? Weak, nonsense starting point, which makes the rest of your rationalization instantly fall flat;

----

Blasting back
Michalczewski camp rips Jones as fight talk heats up
March 09, 2001

BERLIN (AP) -- If the war-of-words is any indication, then the chance of a fight between Roy Jones Jr. and Germany's unbeaten Dariusz Michalczewski is heating up.

Michalczewski's promoter, Hans-Peter Kohl, blasted Jones Friday, reacting angrily to a press release from the Jones camp which painted the German fighter as dodging the bout.

"Jones is a coward and he always was," said Kohl. "For two years now we are trying to make that fight happen. We repeatedly made offers, the last time in 1999 when we met [Jones manager] Murad Muhammed."

Jones' camp sent a fax to Kohl on Feb. 28 wanting to iron out the preliminary details of a bout between the two fighters.

"But the fax doesn't include an offer. All they want to know is how much German TV pays, but they won't say how much they want to pay," said Kohl.

There are several other indications the bout, long awaited by the hardcore boxing public, may have some prospects of taking place between Jones (44-1, 36 knockouts) and Michalczewski (43-0, 36 knockouts).

After beating lightly regarded Derrick Harmon two weeks ago to defend his undisputed title, Jones said he would be willing to take on the fighter ranked No. 2 on almost everyone's light heavyweight list -- with one stipulation.

"I ain't going to Germany," Jones said. "It's a dumb business move."

But Michalczewski, a highly paid and popular fighter in Germany who owns the lightly regarded WBO title, now says he is willing to fight in the United States.

Kohl said the press release was just Jones and his camp trying to deflect criticism that he fights the likes of Harmon, but won't face a top fighter.

"Now that the fans and journalists in his own country have begun to turn away from him because of his cheap ring performances, Jones is suddenly eager to do what he didn't want to do for years, step into the ring with Michalczewski," said Kohl.

"All Jones wants to do is repair his I mage with Michalczewski's name," he added.

Like Jones, the hard-hitting Michalczewski has begun to run out of opponents he can sell to the German public. His last nine bouts have ended in knockouts since a 1997 decision over Virgil Hill, where he briefly united the WBA and IBF crowns with his WBO title.

The Polish-born German then gave up the WBA and IBF titles, which are now owned by Jones.

Kohl said the press release claims Michalczewski is dodging the fight, because he wasn't answering phone calls recently, and because Michalczewski wants to fight in his homeland of Poland on his May 5th birthday first.

"Just because Jones now wants to repair the broken pieces of his image, we are not willing to change our plans all of a sudden."

----

First you choose to believe Kerry Davis and his farcical attempts at negotiation, then chose to ignore Davis' $4m claim and believe Murad Muhammad's $1.5m instead.

Do you know how much mgm crowds generate? A live gate in Germany in a football stadium has nothing to do with anything? Do you even follow boxing?

Kerry Davis worked for HBO. He had every reason to lie. If he genuinely couldn't get hold of Kohl, then he must have been incredibly **** at his job. The Jones camp had zero credibility to begin with.

All you are clinging onto is some half-baked idea - not a genuine offer - of a double header. You're making an incredible amount of perfect-scenario assumptions about a camp notorious for not delivering. Jones repeatedly ducked DM. He admitted he turned down genuine offers. How can you still not understand it? If you're simply struggling to accept it, try harder. Trust me, you'll feel better :good.

 

Michalczewski's thoughts;

Open Letter from Dariusz Michalczewski to Roy Jones
30/12/1999

Dear Roy Jones,

I have followed your career since your performance at the Seoul Olympics. While your accomplishments inside the ring are noteworthy, neither myself nor knowledgeable fans have respect for you, since you have avoided me for years, opting to fight weaker competition.

Why are you ducking me? Is it because I beat Virgil Hill immediately after his greatest win, one year before you faced him? Or because I knocked out Montell Griffin in just four rounds, the only man to ever beat you? Is that the reason you are afraid of me? For five years I'm the undefeated WBO light heavyweight champion. I defended my title 16 times - more than any world champion of our weight class before. The only reason you currently hold the WBA and IBF titles is, because I vacated them two years ago. You like to pretend that you are the greatest boxer of all time. Prove it! Two great champions like ourselves, who are ranked number 1 and 2 inside all independent rankings, owe the boxing fans worldwide to take on each other in the ultimate challenge for the world light heavyweight championship.

Even in your own country people understood that you avoid me, something that was confirmed by a survey on the internet site "Boxing Wise", where 811 out of 939 boxing experts (86%) demanded that you fight me. Roy, if you continue to duck me, you will go down in boxing history as a coward.

Yours sincerely

Dariusz Michalczewski

 

Roy Jones is the most overrated boxer ever!!! Seems like some of his minions think he was some kind of superman which is completely stupid...

 

Joe.Boxer,

Waffling? Ha!

Two years of Kohl TRYING to make the fight??

What were the offers???

To go to Germany? Again, Roy made it abundantly clear that he wasn't going to Germany. If they were offers to have the fight in Germany, they were wasting everyone's time. Germany was nortorious for bad decisions, and everyone had seen DM cheat against Roch. Roy said "I don't even think a knockout would be enough over there!"

Roy had the power in negotiations, because he had ALL of the belts, and was the best fighter in the world. Kohl knew that for the fight to happen it would had to have been in the U.S. The worlds best fighter, and unified champ, that had every belt apart from the WBO did not have to go to Germany. You go to the champ, if you want his belts. The onus was on DM to go to Roy, which he apparently was willing to do.

Dariusz said he was willing to fight in the U.S., but when Davis proposed the double header, it was turned down flat with a bull**** excuse. Are those the actions of someone who wanted a fight? NO!

Hilarious! Dariusz was happy to fight Harmon and Hall TWICE, AFTER Roy had toyed with both of them!

The above reads like a mardy kid having a strop.

He's basically admitted there, that the calls did take place, but they were purposely ignored.

Farcical attempt? What trying to get him on the phone, and proposing a double header? It's funny how every time Davis tried to reach him, he was never available to answer, but as soon as he received the proposal of the double header, he was available INSTANTLY to turn it down flat. Ha! What a joke!

I've followed boxing for many years. The PPV generates the majority of the money.


In 2007 we had two fights.


Floyd Mayweather vs Oscar De La Hoya.

Joe Calzaghe vs Mikkel Kessler.


The De La Hoya fight was fought in front of 16,000 fans.

The Calzaghe fight was fought in front of more than 50,000 fans in Cardiff,
Wales.


Outside of Europe, the Calzaghe fight wasn't a huge fight.

The De La Hoya fight was and still is the BIGGEST grossing fight of all time, grossing over $130m in PPV revenue.

This is just nonsense. Why would he have lied? He had nothing to do with Roy's camp, so he wasn't biased in anyway. He was under pressure from the network to deliver Roy a big fight. You're saying that if he couldn't get hold of Kohl, he must have been **** at his job? Yet the above statement by Kohl, states that their calls were being ignored.

He managed to get hold of him when the proposal for the double header went through didn't he? Yet Dariusz, who supposedly wanted the fight, turned it down flat.

Have you listened to yourself??

A half baked idea? Not a genuine offer? Ha!

It was a great business idea.

A double header, where they WOULD have fought on the same card.

Dariusz said he was willing to go to America. So, he could have made his debut in America, fought in front of the fans, and hyped the fight even more.

More interest = MORE MONEY for EVERYONE!

If he'd have been genuinely happy to do as he claimed, HE'D HAVE ACCEPTED THE OFFER, AND HE'D HAVE FOUGHT IN AMERICA.

But he wasn't genuine, because he NEVER WENT!


Lets look at what he did instead of going to America.


He fought:


Muslim Biarslanov (who?)

Griffin (2 years AFTER Roy had iced him in one.)

Roch in a rematch, after he'd fallen down like a fairy in their first fight, acting to get Roch DQ'd.

Ka-Dy-King (who?)

Alejandro Lakatos (who?)

Richard Hall (A year AFTER Roy had hammered him)

Joey De Grandis

Richard Hall - AGAIN atsch

Derrick Harmon (2 years AFTER Roy had toyed with him, and had been criticised for fighting him.)


You need a reality check.

It doesn't matter what Dariusz CLAIMED, it's what he did that counts.

Dariusz said he was willing to go to America.

But Dariusz DID NOT GO TO AMERICA, he stayed in Germany and fought the above guys.


You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

History has shown us what Dariusz's intentions were. :good

 

Calzaghe.

Roid Jones doesn't come close. Hopefully he'll get KTFO again soon and he can go back to being a Florida chicken farmer or whatever it is he does in his worthless life.

 

Quite possibly the funniest, most ******ed thing I've ever read.



1. "You have avoided me for years, fighting weaker opposition"

Oh the IRONY! Ha!




2. Dariusz beat Virgil Hill on points in June of 97.

Ten months later, Roy DESTROYED him in just 4 rounds.




3. Griffin beat Roy on a DQ, after getting up from the canvas. Griffin did NOT beat Roy on a points decision or a KO/TKO. Griffin was AWARDED the win, just like how Dariusz was awarded the win against Roch in 96, for his disgraceful and embarrassing play acting, because he didn't want to fight anymore.

Go to the 26th minute.

http://youtu.be/ldlJvvPTjWk

This is one of the reasons why Roy didn't want to fight in Germany.


In the rematch with Roy, Griffin was iced in a SINGLE round in Aug of 97.


"Is it because I knocked Montell Griffin out in just four rounds?"

That's hilarious!

He knocked Griffin out in just four rounds, TWO YEARS AFTER Roy had iced him in ONE!




4. "I'm the undefeated WBO Light Heavy Champion."

Ha! The WBO belt wasn't respected or even ranked by the likes of The Ring magazine back then.




5. Most importantly, after all of what was said above, he and Kohl REFUSED the double header with a bull**** excuse, and then went on to fight Hall, De Grandis, King and Lakatos etc instead.



****ing hilarious!


Actions speak louder than words.

I can write a letter to ANYBODY, saying ANYTHING!


What happened afterwards?



NOTHING!

 

SUPER JOE!

He waited over TEN years to unify, by beating Kessler, who'd beaten????

 

Calzagher,Calzagher,Calzaghe

beat Kessler (the real Kessler not the versions Froch struggled to get past)
beat Hopkins (look what Hopkins has done since that fight)
ended Jeff Laceys career (He was being hyped by the yanks as the next Mike Tyson)
got off the floor to stop Bryon Mitchell ( that punch would of stopped most other super middles)
Snatched the title from Chris Eubank at 24 years old (although Eubank was on the slide it was no mean feat.)
Was avoided by Steve Collins (Who beat Benn and Eubank)
and hold decent wins over other good SMW's like Bika,Sheika, Woodhall

 

twice as much waffle there. I can't be bothered refuting every one of your points, so I'll summarize.

No, Jones didn't make it abundantly clear he wouldn't go to Germany, he asked for stupid money after refusing $5m. Then again being such a bullshitter he constantly contradicted himself there. Bringing up time wasting regarding the DM camp?? :roflatsch Jones - as he proved throughout his whole career. Accusing the DM camp of timewasting

DM cheat against Rocky? Rocky was the one who cheated there, though I'll school you on that in another thread.

I've already addressed the weak "bad decisions" excuse.

The next point = nonsense. DM Was the Lineal/WBO champion. Jones was a paper title holder who the fans were tired of, which resulted in The Roycott stuff. Obviously Jones didn't have the power he thought he had, which is why this and so many other fights didn't happen.

The next point, DM had repeatedly offered Jones the fight. You can't get any more "wanting the fight" than that. Jones always refused.

Davis could contact Kohl whenever. The only fax Kohl got has already been pointed out, which was nothing specific. Kohl didn't instantly turn anything down. He replied to the Jones camp's bull**** in the media. Kohl probably wasn't even aware of the calls.

If a genuine "double header" was offered, with dates, opponents etc, which it wasn't, and the DM camp happened to refuse, why didn't the Jones camp call their bluff and offer DM a straight shot at Jones? Because they were talking **** as usual.

DLH-Mayweather was hbo ppv, Calzaghe-Kessler wasn't - and wasn't anything to do with German boxing. If you believe that DM-Jones would be a hbo ppv fight in the u.s. you're even more clueless than I thought .

Davis was with HBO you thick ****, who were in bed with Jones. Kohl states all calls be briefly being ignored. Davis could have faxed him whenever.

"He managed to get hold of him when the proposal for the double header went through didn't he? Yet Dariusz, who supposedly wanted the fight, turned it down flat." Er, no he didn't get hold of him.

Great business idea, but not for this fight. Plus the Jones camp could never be trusted.

Their opposition was similar. Jones' was slightly better. Telesco is another one who bottled it - during camp. Besides which, this is all bollocks. Jones repeatedly ducked DM. That's irrefutable. The DM camp wanted to fight Jones, not to be further messed around, like Jones did with everyone.

 

Ali Raymi. GOAT at every weight class. (When he gets the time to move up)