Who's the GOAT at SMW?

bailey,

Part 1,

Oh no!

You don't get bored, you just haven't got a comeback.

Roy couldn't fight DM, because he didn't want the fight.

I think that he should have fought Nunn, but he dropped his title to pursue a Buster Douglas fight.

Tiozzo wasn't at 175 when Roy went up, which is why the WBC interim belt was on the line against McCallum.

Now I know for a fact, that had Roy fought these guys above, you'd have just typed another load of names to replace them.

Roy would have needed to fight a 100 times to have fought everyone.

There'll always be a few gaps in a fighters record.

You can list any fighter, and there'll be gaps.

Really?

So Joseph has psychic powers then does he?

He knew in 2004, that he'd be able to fight Lacy and Kessler 2 to 3 years down the line to unify?

Eubank was at the end of his career, preparing to fight at 175, when at 11 days notice, was offered a fight at 168 against a southpaw.

Why are we discussing Hopkins anyway?

You are the king of spin!

Answering questions with a question instead of an answer.

We're not talking about Hopkins.

We're talking about the career choices of Joseph.

That's right, but he could have got more recognition, made more money, fought better fighters, and been a legitimate 2 weight world champ.

You don't have to listen to me regarding Joe's weight, he himself said that he had to starve himself to make weight, and wanted bigger fights and recognition at 175.

The only problem is, he said that in 2004, but didn't end up there til 2008.

Joe and Enzo must have set off from Cardigan Bay in a pedalo and got lost.

Every fighter has different circumstances.

Hop was obviously happy doing what he was doing.

Joe said he wasn't, yet didn't do anything about it.

Did Hop or Oscar ever fight in front of a live crowd of 50,000-60,000 people?

No they didn't.

But were their fights bigger?

OF COURSE!

Hardly anybody had heard of Kessler before he fought Joe.

De La Hoya vs Hopkins, and Hopkins vs Tito were huge fights!

They were much BIGGER on a global scale than Joe vs Kessler.

That wasn't even a huge fight outside of Europe!

You've got to be on some good L.S.D. if you think Joe vs Kessler was watched by more people globally than Tito, Hop and Oscar.

It was a possibility. Everyone wanted a Roy vs DM fight. If Joe had have beaten DM, then they may have been big money interest in a fight with Roy. It was an avenue to explore.

Roy didn't fight those guys, but that doesn't mean they were ducked.

You haven't schooled anybody!

They're black and white stats that don't allow for circumstances.

Lets say that the 147 division was generally classed as the weakest in boxing.

There'd still be world champions in it, because each class as three main belts and a load of others.

I could say "I don't think so and so is a great fighter."

But you could come back and say, "Yeah but he's got a belt, and he's undefeated" etc.


If you want to hype up Starie and Woodhall etc, be my guest, it doesn't mean anything.


Put the names in a list side by side.

From 99-2006,


The 175 division had the following fighters in it:

Roy Jones

DM

Griffin

Hill

Hopkins

Reggie Johnson

Michael Nunn

Roch

Harding

Tarver etc.


It was a stronger division than 168.

Here you are again trying to spin things.

Joe himself said that he'd got nothing left to achieve at 168, and he knew he had to fight in America at 175, to further himself. He said he was confident that he could take his speed up, and he wanted a new challenge. He said all of that in 2004.

Ha!

Less accomplished?

What had Joe accomplished?

Tarver had knocked Roy out.

Joe had beaten Lacy.

So what if Joe had got two undefeated world champs to fight?

Hopkins vs Tarver, was bigger than Joe vs Kessler.

Nobody knew anything about Kessler until he'd fought Joe.

What had Joe done at 175 before the Hop fight?

You can ask that question of anyone.

Toney hadn't done a deal at LHW, but he'd proven himself to be a world class fighter, after fighting the likes of McCallum, Reggie Johnson, Michael Nunn and a peak version of Roy.

What had Woodhall, Starie, Sobot, Salem, Ashira, etc done to keep Joe from moving up?

Ha!

Here come the boxrec stats!

You haven't even got a case to argue against.

The guy who you're defending himself said "I know I have to move up!"

 

Part 2,

Why are looking at a specific time?

If Joe had've been already based at 175 back then, he could have fought the likes of Roy and Tarver.

A fight against Roy or Tarver would have been bigger fights than Lacy or Kessler.

But you've got an obsession with undefeated fighters haven't you?

Kessler was the bigger fight according to you, because he was UNDEFEATED!

Then If I ask who against, you'll give me boxrec stats on Andrade, Beyer and Mundine etc.

If Joe had have made a name for himself at 175 earlier, he could have fought Roy after he came back from heavy instead of Tarver and Johnson. There's a whole load of possibilities.

Woods fought Roy in 2002, in his last mandatory before he went up for Ruiz.

He had the opportunity to go to America in 1999, but he turned it down and told everybody that he didn't want tough fights.

Joe could also have been in that same position instead of Woods.

Ha!

You've pawned me how?

I said "The 168 division was a stepping stone."

It's completely irrelevant how long they stayed.

Stop twisting my words.

Nunn, Toney and Roy, stopped at 168, before going up to 175 and beyond.

That's a FACT!

Roy COULD have stayed at 168 for many years, but he decided to move up.

HE PASSED THROUGH!

I said they passed through it and used it as a stepping stone.

Roy went on to unify at 175 and to then went on to fight at HW.

So did he pass through???

YES HE DID!

Did Toney end up at 175 and beyond?

Did Nunn?

YES!

They all passed through!

Yes, he clearly AVOIDED him earlier, only to fight him when he was older and then asked him for a rematch.

Less accomplished Tarver?

Tarver had beaten Roy and had taken all his belts at 175.

WHAT HAD LACY DONE EXACTLY?

A wise move?

He fought him two years later, in a controversial split decision, and again, wanted a rematch.

Well that's ok then! Ha!

He beat a near 40 year old version of Roy, who'd himself beaten Toney 14 YEARS EARLIER!

Joe would never have had the bollocks to go up to CW.

He tried to pull out against Lacy, so he would hardly have taken on a guy like Jirov would he?

So he wasn't an already established world class fighter then??

Joe didn't know anything about Lacy and Kessler before 2004/2005 did he?

Not unless he was psychic!

Everyone's got different circumstances.

Carl has got relevant fights at 168.

Once again, in 2004, Joe said "I've done everything I can, and now I want a fresh challenge at 175. I know I have to fight go up and fight in America."

Can you not see the DIFFERENCE??

What has that got to do with what I've typed above?

Carl's circumstances are different.

Also, Joe vs Starie, and Joe vs Woodhall weren't BIG domestic fights, that had huge interest.

Yeah, everything revolves around Joe!

I don't know what he's done.

I agree that there's big fights for Carl at 175.

But times have changed, but yet again, the circumstances are different.

I agree that Groves hasn't done much, and David Starie was a solid fighter.

But Groves vs Froch will create huge interest!

Joe vs Starie didn't!

Froch seems happy at 168, and he can fight Kessler again.

He has not said what Joe did in 2004.

I also believe that had Carl had been in Joe's shoes in the late 90's, he would have gone up to 175, instead of staying at 168. That's my honest opinion.

If Bute had beaten Froch, I believe he'd have targeted Ward.

I don't think Ward ducked Bute, I think he wanted a break and a few easy fights after the tournament to let the fight build up. I personally think that Carl threw a huge spanner in the works, and by knocking Bute out, he killed the interest in a Ward vs Bute fight.

I don't know where you're going with this?

The division has more interest in it now, than what it did when Joe was in it.

Groves haven't proved much like you say, and I agree with you.

But they are popular fighters, and there's more interest in them than what there was in Reid and Starie etc, and that's not been disrespectful to those fighters.

Starie in your opinion, might have been better than Groves, but nobody in 1999 would have paid PPV to see Joe fight the likes of Reid or Starie, with that being the main event.

 

Foxy 01,


I wonder where YOUR wonderful "Iron Lady" was born?

Oh yeah,

I know,

it was GRANTHAM!

Grantham, Lincolnshire!


Now,

I wonder where Lincolnshire is on the map exactly?

Let me think for a second.

Oh I know,

It's adjoined to the County of SOUTH YORKSHIRE! Ha!


So YOUR WONDERFUL IRON LADY was also a NORTHERN ****!

It's not looking good mate.


I've now OWNED YOU TWICE!

Or should I say, you have OWNED YOURSELF TWICE!


Ha!

You ****ing idiot!

 

When DM lost to Gonzalez, it was at the end of his career and was a debateable loss. Have you seen it?
That was also years after later and they had both been in the division a long time before then

 

Terrible post Loudon where I could pick many holes in it, but Joe.Boxer has completely schooled you.
Still what I wanted to know was, why are you so taken in by The Ring mag? It is based opinions and nothing more. Why does it hold such weight with you? Are you this taken in by others?

 

Joe.Boxer's post is laughable!

He's schooled himself.

He agrees with Kohl turning down the proposal, but then doubts whether or not he actually saw it?

Ha!

That's way beyond dumb!

Ha! What an idiot!

I'm not taken in by the Ring, I was just emphasising the point that the WBO wasn't respected in the late 90's/early 00's.

He said it was valued the same as the main three.

Also, regarding the Ring magazine, I've heard you boast about Joe having the Ring belt.

Please don't reply to today's earlier post, until I've replied to your other post.

Thanks! :good

 

yeah, the ring magazine sucks unless calzaghe holds their belt. then, it's ok

 

Im starting to feel a bit sorry for Loudon now.
Loudons further pwnage

 

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Joe Boxer's passionate hatred for Roy Jones makes him delusional.. It is the exact opposite of a nuthugger. One of the most respected posters on the forum?atsch ****ing please..:-(

 

delete

 

Yeah, I have, I thought Gonzalez edged it for sure..

I am aware that was towards the end DM's career, but that is where I totally dismiss the lineage, and go with Roy being the man after his hard fought victory over Tarver.

It is a shame Roy and DM never fought, but I think it is clear both sides dicked each other at times.. It wasn't to blame 100 percent on one side...