Foreman vs Frazier revisited.

Foreman's power was devastating, arguably the hardest puncher in
HW history. Louis and Dempsey noted this at the Norton fight I believe.
There is an alternate camera angle that shows that the shot when Frazier is running is terrifying. Foreman was a force of nature, a vicious brutal
power puncher with underrated precision and speed. Foreman used the jab
to offset Frazier and unloaded destructive hooks and uppercuts. Frazier got up because he didnt kow how to quit, he was most definitely hurt. Watch Foreman hit the heavybag, then rewatch Foreman vs Frazier !.

 

Most assuredly, Frazier was hurt.

And great as he was, he only knew one way to fight...coming forward, bobbing and weaving. And that's how he met Foreman, both times.

They could have fought 10 times and George would have won 10.

 

When the fight was stopped Fraziers mouth was pouring blood. Frazier carried a shotgun into this bout. Problem was Foreman had a cannon. Foreman seemed to stagger Frazier early on with his jab. First kd looked like a grazing right hand. Second kd Foreman landed one of the strongest uppercuts in hwt history...Frazier was out when the punch landed and woke up when he hit the canvas. Last kd came from both fists. Bell rang ending round one? Joe collapsed into His trainers arms. Round two first kd Joe runs into a devastating left hook countering his own hook. Joe then finds himself trapped along the ropes and agreeing taking punch after punch lie rally tries running away from George and is hit in the process with a right Han to the chin...kd 5. Final kd Frazier is taking lefts and rights to the chin...a right hand takes him off his feet. Ref stops the fight with Joe realing wiping the blood pouring from his mouth. Joe was not hurt? He was almost killed.

In the rematch Joe indeed tried to move, lay on the ropes...do anything he could to get by the first 5 rounds in the hope George would tire. Again it ended up as a mismatch. Fraziers punches never seemed to effect Foreman...he just walked through Joe like a knife the butter.

They could have fought a hundred times...Foreman by ko each and every time.

 

Sadler and Moore had trained George with his stance to perfection for his build, it gave every bit of power possible into those uppercuts, right hand, and his step in jab too. Joe was stunned and then hurt badly. I don't which is the more awesome, the Foreman of this bout or the one with Norton.

 

Well said!

 

Frazier was tough as he could be, so putting him down like that was a feat in itself- he was hurt, but he may have done a better job of masking it than most fighters would have.

Foreman hit Frazier while he tried to literally run out of there with a fastball pitch bomb to the temple; it didn't graze him. It clobbered him to the floor.

I think Frazier took George lightly and didn't train as hard as he should have. This, combined with his style, which doesn't involve dancing or boxing, he couldn't adjust by the time he realized he was being slaughtered.

I don't get where you said Frazier ran more than Ali or Spinks... That knockdown was the only running you'll see from Joe Frazier.


I also believe Foreman is vastly overrated, more overall than in power, but his power is overrated. He had a run of two fights where he blew out well-known and great (in Frazier's case) fighters with many clean punches in a row. He really couldn't miss in those fights.

That's funny because that's the hottest he ever looked. And the most accurate.

 

And I'll correct Houdini...

Frazier brought a shotgun to the fight, but Foreman brought TWO cannons...

 

Foremans power is NOT overrated. I've watched him, shavers, Frazier and many other hwts train and more specifically hit a heavy bag. No one...I'll repeat that NOONE hit a heavy bag like Foreman. He hit it like Shavers and Frazier hit a regular bag. Foreman hit like a sledge hammer. Can't imagine any human being hitting harder. Trust me on this one. the rafters would shake and you could hear his punches one after the other all through the gym. The most frightening display of punching power I have ever witnessed.

 

John...your wrong. I don't consider old Foreman when I think of the best Foreman. Younger guys do because they don't know the best Foreman which was Circa 1973 - 1974.

You saw the video....I saw him live within 10 feet. I also did the same with Frazier and Shavers. Foreman by far was the more powerful hitter. I spoke to Foremans sparring partners during my time visiting his camp. They told me he hit like no other fighter they had ever been in the ring with. Actually one of Foremans sparring partners was working with Frazier years before and he told me the George was the most powerful hitter he had ever seen. foreman was not exposed really it's been the same since Sullivan and Corbett. The smooth boxer outboxes and outsmarts the killer puncher. Frazier was no boxer. Maybe he ducks a few blows but the ones that get through would destroy him.

Foreman knocked him out easily twice....there is no scenario that can be presented that magically makes a third encounter a win for Frazier. You do not walk straight in, in a crouch, against George Foreman.

 

Another point you made is dead wrong. There WAS a prime or close to prime version of Foreman who was relaxed better paced...guess your too young to remember or know.

When George came back after losing to Ali he brought on Gil Clancy as his trainer. Gil is the one who slowed Foreman down, taught George to pace himself, relax. In reality it was this Foreman who came back in the 80s. It was this Foreman who fought Frazier the second time.

Anyway...I know both fighters very very well. Frazier at no time is beating prime Foreman.

 

However you want to term it. The point is Frazier had two fights with Foreman and could do nothing with him...nothing. Your not going to roll back the clock two years and turn the worst blowout since Dempsey Willard into a win for Frazier. Not going to happen.

Again a ko puncher being beat by slick boxers is commonplace. Ali and Young were the slickest boxers from the 70s. yes...if you watch that bout you do indeed see a Foreman who is pacing himself but being outboxed over the first 6 rounds. At the very beginning of round 7 George hits young with a left hook and then George goes crazy for the ko.

Frazier is no Ali, no Young. Both boxers were standup fighters who did not bend at the waist into Foremans power. I loved Frazier but he is just outgunned here and always would be.

 

How Frazier got up from the uppercut George landed for the 2nd knockdown i'll never know,it was a hugely powerful punch,Foremans honey punch actually.
Also Joe took huge shots,mainly hooks before the last knockdown which took him off his feet.
How Frazier was still standing is beyond me.

 

Gil was a great boxing man and trainer, and he did start George down the road to what he became in his comeback, but Gil also made big mistakes with George's mechanics. In an effort to shorten his hooks Gil brought Foreman's feet too close together for his makeup and taking away his walk in power in his jab and right hand. Both my brother and I first noticed his right uppercut traveling sideways because of this, totally different then the perfectly thrown ones in the first Frazier go due to Saddlers much wider taught stance with the big man.

 

Great posts in this thread..Pleasure to read!