Have PEDS dramatically improved fighters?

That's what I'm saying, obviously Jones legal team worked out what would be deduced from them fumbling around with the nasal congestant answer and then the ripped fuel line, they knew that would lead to the popular belief of andro, and yes the whole light-hearted 'over the counter' story.

Roy could have cleared everything up taking the B sample to a laboratory of his choice. He had plenty of time to think about that, his attourney worked out the best damage limitation escape route to leave a question of doubt in the air.

If Roy had of refused to have the B sample tested today he would be wiped from the rings rankings.

 

I am sure today he would not have refused sample B.. As it seems like Indiana really didn't know what they were doing or how to even deal with it, or really didn't inforce anything on Roy.

If Roy really wasn't taking andro and something more serious, he sure escaped it pretty clean considering we have no proof of what exactly he was taking..

Imagine how many fighters from the past have been doped up and skated by their entire careers? we will never know.

 

That's why I asked kmac about when drug testing started on American soil. btw I've never heard of the bramble case before and i'm a little shocked at that because I've not heard of any boxer on American soil testing positive for PED's before Jones (hopefully someone on here can find something). I'd like to see some articles about the history of PED testing for boxing on American soil so we can get some idea of the degree of testing on a timeline because how can you have a gap from 1985 to 2000 with nobody failing a single test.

I genuinely believe that much of the 90s/2000s was spent with a high number of top American based boxers juicing and that the promoters and governing bodies are now only being bit by bit shamed into doing anything about it. IMO the likes of Arum and ODLH know all about the cheating that has gone on with their fighters and done everything possible to cover up their tracks, a cover up here, a backhander there. The most corrupt people in any walk of life are those at the top, whether that's the govt, the police, FIFA, the boxing promoters, the governing bodies, the oil tycoons, the bankers, any major business.

IMO The American based boxers in the 90s and 2000s gotta away with murder with regards to testing and when you have one nationality dominating a sport like americans did with boxing / athletics then I think its usually a sign of foul play (obviously size of population has to be taken into account as well).

Other suspicious groups were the likes of the east german sprinters in the early 80s, the recent Chinese Olympic athletes, the Jamaican sprinters, and the current British cyclists dominating the sport disproportionately.

I think the BALCO scandal rocked drugs cheats to a degree and so many fighters got out of the cheating cycle at the right time (but probably dread the day a scandal arises and their name gets belatedly dragged into outing what they did).

Its great to see more disgraces get dragged into the spotlight now like Berto, Tarver, G Jones, Peterson, Tarver etc but like everyone says its just the tip of the iceberg, every single one of these athletes has pre-planned damage limitation explanation if they get caught.

Like you say, so many fighters have gone through their careers being regular juicers and retired and will never be caught and never have their names tarnished like the scapegoats who have been caught.

Boxing needs to start getting tough on its stance or boxers are gonna keep taking the risk of using PED's to give themselves a better shot at being a champion, At the minute each fighter probably feels that they are potentially fighting of an uneven playing field if they are clean, that's why if I was in charge of the sport I would issue life time bans for those caught - punish the cheaters and reward the clean fighters, instead of rewarding the cheats and punishing the clean fighters (which has been the case for the last 25 years).

 

vitali?

its probably hard for tall guys to bulk up

it would probably explain his high pitched voice during the lennox fight..the cut was probably a zit that popped

__________________
youtube.com/watch?v=Kft7xzGM2Qk

 

Between the IBF and the Indiana commission there was some pretty impressive dumb****ery going on.

Regardless of which camp you reside in, the way they collectively handled the case has to be a source of frustration. Lance Armstrong has a 1000 page dossier; Roy Jones has a one page letter.

If it wasn't boxing, it would beggar belief that the sport's best competitor testing positive for "anabolic steroid" could be dealt with in such a half-assed and apathetic way.

Again, regardless of whether you believe Jones' story or not, you have to admit that the whole episode was a farce and that none of the parties involved (Jones, Richard Hall, IBF, Indiana Commission) emerge with any credit.

 

you didn't really answer the questions but you made a decent attempt. how is espn and kieran mulvaney not legitimate? espn is not as legit as bragging rights corner? mind reader is right that the ring magazine also reported that it was andro that both hall and jones tested positive for but i don't have a source to post for that. i'm sure that's just another coverup by a magazine that can't stand jones.

you feel the way you do about this topic and that's fine but don't point to a typo on the pilot testing program. you proudly sent me an article saying this is what busted jones. that program started in '01. jones and hall fought in 2000. you were busted in a lie and it's hard to believe anything else you write when you have that reputation. it's kind of like how you feel about jones. you don't believe him.

our argument basically comes down to this, you don't believe the reports of andro and i do. i guess we'll have to leave it at that.

you're a hateful poster on these boards and we've gone at it quite a few times but i'm sure if we met face to face we'd have a few beers and enjoy talking about the sport. if fact all these guys on here are probably cool, except for rico spadafora. **** that guy! i'm not sure he knows anything about the sport. :good

 

i was surprised as well when i came across the bramble story. i started a thread about that a few months back. from what i understand, nevada's testing they have in place now started back in 2002. yes, like you said, the gap from '85 to 2000 without a positive test in the sport is not reasonable. you're obviously anti-american with your comments but peds in boxing are and have been a world wide problem. you talk about the 90s but i personally believe peds have played a big part in boxing since the 70s. here's a historical timeline of peds. cheating has been going on since the ancient olympic games.
http://sportsanddrugs.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=002366

 

Why would kieran mulvaney know that Jones took andro but neither the Indiana Commissioner or the IBF didn't?

No an espn journalist is nowhere near as reliable bragging rights simply because bragging rights interviewed Hall and Muhammad.
If espn had interviewd Hall and Muhammad then that would be thee reliable source.

It doesn't matter what Ring magazine reported, How could ring comic be more reliable than Hall and Muhammad?

No, my statement of that pilot testing programme came directly quoted from a thread that General Zod created. I should have checked that myself and when I did try and search the pilot testing programme on the net I didn't find nothing about it.

Yes the difference is down to the fact that I believe the objective legitimate 1st hand sources and you are happy to believe 2nd hand subjective journalist opinion over the only legitimate sources.

Juice20 produced some outstanding sources in the past that show how unlikely it would be that andro would have produced that 6 to 1 testosterone ratio in this specific test for Jones anyway.

I'm a Team Elite General (the toast of esb), it is my job to put ham n eggers in their place via the use of irrefutable scientific facts in crystal clear HD before a global audience of million via the use of carefully selected emoticons :yeppatsch

Probably :cheers but if you stepped outta line I would put your horrible pointy chin on ***** street with a pawed range finder jab from the opening stanza :vonnecunt

Rico Spadafora is a lock in top 5 ATG esb poster.





btw, do you believe that the Jones v Hall fight was the 1st time Jones was drug tested as a pro?

 

In defense of the ripped fuel story... Andro was hugely popular during that time period, and could certainly be responsible for raising testosterone levels for a short period.

 

Great summation, that's the conclusions that I came to as well, but articulated perfectly. It's been around for decades, but before it was more basic forms that styed in your body for weeks, but as it's evolved, now we have quicker esters, undectables, hgh, you name it's there.

 

Yeah, i've briefly come across that article before but was disappointed by the lack of boxing information on it.

I agree in other sports about the wider useage of PEDs in other countries and it is obvious due to the dis-proportionate success of certain countries in certain sports.

I don't buy it as much in boxing, Europe hadnever produced 'supermen' in boxing but in the late 80s/90s/00s American based boxers were head and shoulders above the world, and just taking one look at the physical specimens of Holyfield and Jones you could understand that suspicion. Since Balco and the improvement in testing, I don't think America holds the same strangle hold on boxing in terms of the elite (not that there aren't still cheats as champions or promoters and governing bodies happy to cover cheating up).

Like I said before I would be very suspicious of the British cycling team at the Olympics, we were producing a dis-proportionate amount of exceptional cyclists in the velodrome and we have also produced the last 2 winners of the tour de france.

 

I could dig out juice20s quotes of why that would have been very unlikely in Roy's case, that mother****er knows his **** about juicing like no one else on esb.

 

Of course it will. They don't call it PEDS ( performance enhancing drugs) for nothing. But obviously, a boxer that has the talent ; speed, power, and skill already, and you pump him with PEDS. Lord have mercy! you have monster on your hands. But a boxer that has zero ability PEDS can't help much. It still depends on individuals. Roy Jones on PEDS? LOOK OUT!!

 

He does, I have talked with him over the same thing.. He did say it was possible, though unlikely.

I have done research too that states it would possible as well.

 

honestly i don't know. i know the article states that jones sent his next two drug tests back to the ibf/indiana commission after the hall fight but besides that the next time that i know he was tested was vs ruiz. that fight was in '03 and in nevada. i believe it was thomas hauser who wrote the article that followed jones before and after the fight. the article stated that after jones gave his **** sample to the nevada commission, he received his $10 million check from don king.

going back to the andro argument on if it can raise testosterone levels, juice's research that he sites was proven to have holes in it. i think it was conrad dobler that pointed it out. yes, juice knows his stuff but there are many studies that say andro raises testosterone levels. if fact there are commercials for 2 different products i've seen that contain andro. one is androgel and i don't remember the other. they are prescribed by doctors because they raise testosterone levels.