How do you feel about Roy jones?

Loudon, take the advice. Its in your own interest.
What links do you have where you can prove what a fighter was thinking?

 

I really like Jones, he was flashy, fun to watch. Hated to see him retire.

 

He's the greatest middleweight ever

 

I myself have posted these exact same links in this thread, among others.

From everyone's links, including yours, this is what we know:

Lewis thought that Roy would be easy work, for huge money.

Lewis was looking to have 3 or more fights, before Vitali.

After seeing Lewis struggle with Vitali, Roy told Murad that he wanted the fight. (This is in your link that you are using as evidence.)

Lewis's team did in fact speak with Roy's team.

Both Lewis and Roy did speak to each other.

One week before the Tarver fight, Roy was a guest on HBO, and he spoke to Jim Lampley. Jim asked him what was happening regarding a potential fight with Lewis. Roy said "I don't know? One minute he was gonna take the S of my chest, but when I spoke to him, he said he didn't know if he was going to fight again."

That link was posted on here, I believe by Kmac , earlier on in the year. If you want to see it again, I'll try and find it.

We know that Lewis officially retired early in 2004, and he said he'd lost motivation.

So, pre Vitali, he was up for more fights and wanted Roy, then post Vitali, he talked again about potentially fighting Roy and rematching Vitali, but then ultimately decided to retire.

Now I've never seen a link where Lewis has said that he wanted Roy, but Roy wouldn't sign, or priced himself out etc.

The information we've got, states that Roy and Murad held talks, and Lewis seemed up for it, before changing his mind and walking away from boxing.

 

What are you talking about specifically?

I can tell you what Roy was thinking, if he made it public knowledge by giving various interviews.

Again, you can use the Hill example.

I said he was looking at Hill while preparing for Griffin.

You asked me how I knew that?

Because Roy said it in an interview from Jan of 97, that was posted on here.

I'm not a mind reader.

But if Roy gives an open account of his intentions in an interview, then I can tell others who haven't seen it, what was said.

 

You can't say it's a valid point, when you've done the exact same thing, that I've been accused of. You've combined two separate things to make your own assumption, and then have tried to pass it off as being factual.

You have given links of Lewis talking about a potential fight with Roy, which I myself have used.

You've then taken a comment of Roy's where he said the risk outweighed the reward to stay at HW, and you've combined them together.

You've made it read as though Lewis called out Roy, and Roy responded directly, and said it wasn't worth the risk.

That's not what happened.

Roy made no direct reference to a Lewis fight when he said that.

We know that they held talks, from the links that have been posted.

Again, we know that Lewis retired.

Roy was willing to fight again at HW for huge money.

When that wasn't possible, he then went back down to 175.

If he wasn't willing to risk it against Lewis, then why in your links, did he phone Murad up and tell him he wanted the fight?

Why did he speak to Lewis personally?

Why did Alton Merkerson say that he kept his weight on, in the hope of fighting at HW again?

You've implied that Lewis wanted Roy, but Roy turned his back and went back to 175 instead.

But it was Lewis who said that he didn't know if he was going to fight again, and we know that in the end, he didn't.

Now if you want to imply that Lewis retired because Roy didn't want to risk it, then again, show me a link.

There's now sufficient evidence to prove that Roy was interested.

 

general zod,

That's fair enough, and everyone is different. But again, I think there's now sufficient evidence to prove that Roy was interested.

How could he have signed a contract, if Lewis told him that he didn't know if he was going to fight again, and then he actually ended up retiring?

Again, he didn't specifically say that Lewis wasn't worth the risk.

Why would he have stayed at HW, if Lewis didn't know if he was going to fight again, and at the same time Tarver was baiting him?

Guys like Tua, Sanders and Vitali weren't worth the risk, because they wouldn't have brought the crazy money that Lewis and Tyson would have brought to the table.

Again, it was Lewis who stated that he wanted more fights, and Roy would be easy, only for him to struggle with Vitali, then never fight again, by announcing his retirement stating that he'd lost his motivation.

So he was motivated early 2003, but he wasn't late in 2003?

I think it's safe to assume that the Vitali fight changed his mind.

Roy didn't face Gerald and Jackson at 160, due his Dad holding him back, which we've discussed before. He missed a lot of great fights at 160, because he was fed nobodies until he split with his Dad in 92. Then by the time he'd made waves, he could no longer make the weight.

Gerald was missed at 160, and he only had one fight at 168, the tragic one with Benn.

Nobody can say that he ducked those guys.

He went up and fought Ruiz though.

Ruiz wasn't a big punching HW, with a high knockout ratio against other HW's, but he was a big puncher to a 34 year old, 175 fighter moving up.

Roy has also fought Danny Green at nearly 41, at CW, and he fought Lebedev at CW who brutally knocked him out at 43.

So Roy's fought punches way past his best in his 40's, yet he wouldn't fight them when he was younger?

Has he got braver as he's gotten older?

 

He had intentions of fighting Roy and Vitali, but then decided to call it a day.

 

Obviously Lewis didn't think so, otherwise he wouldn't have told Roy he was unsure of his plans, and he wouldn't have ended up retiring. Who'd walk away from a payday like that, if it was easy?

 

Well lets have a look what you're links have informed us.


Talks were at an advanced stage.

Roy had personally met Mike in Miami, and said he'd do whatever it took to make it happen.

It confirms that Murad was also in talks with Lewis.


However, they were hurdles to overcome such as:

An assault charge.

A filing for bankruptcy.

A separation from Finkle.

Mike had been out of the ring a year.

He hadn't got a trainer.

He was embroiled in the middle of a lawsuit with King for $100M.


It was no real surprise in my opinion, that while all that was taking place, Roy went on to fight Tarver again.

Mike's life was in a mess, and the Tarver rematch was there to be made.

I can remember that Roy still spoke of wanting Tyson, while he was preparing for Tarver again.

Now obviously, the Tarver rematch and the Glen Johnson fight killed off any chance of a fight with Mike.

Also, Mike would get knocked out by Danny Williams two months before the Glen Johnson fight, and would only fight once more, against Kevin McBride the following summer.

So I don't really know where you're going with your post?

It confirms that both guys wanted the fight, but there were lots of roadblocks on Mike's side.

 

he had become so c*cky, phony and full of sh*t that it was great to see tarver knock his block off.

 

"Nurse!!!"

 

general zod,

What difference does it make when he officially retired?

He was talking about a Vitali rematch, and a fight with Roy. In the end he did neither.

Again, if you think the reason he retired, is because Roy moved back down to 175, because he didn't want to fight, then show me a link.

The evidence that I've seen, is Roy saying on HBO that Lewis wasn't sure what he was going to do, and then when he did officially retire, it was due to his heart not being in it. His retirement wasn't due to Roy not wanting to fight him. Roy was never mentioned.

What's my source?

Pre Vitali, he was boastful and spoke of having three or more fights.

Post Vitali, he retired and never fought again.

HBO obviously offered him more money to keep the date aswell.

It seems straight forward enough to me.

You'd got a guy who was talking about fighting on after Vitali, sounding motivated and confident.

He then struggled, and never fought again.

That to me, speaks volumes.

His opinion changed completely after the Vitali fight.

I'm not saying he thought Vitali would be EASY. But it seems obvious to me, that he didn't anticipate the fight to be as hard as what it was.

He wasn't reluctant at first. Again, if he was up for Roy, why did he say to Roy he didn't know if he was going to fight again?

Why have we never heard him say that it was Roy who stopped the fight from taking place?

Why did he retire and say, it was because he'd lost motivation and couldn't give 100%?

I'm not disputing what he said in your links at the time.

But he obviously had a change of heart.

 

The Jackson fight was offered to him in 93.
Jones turned it down claiming he did not know how much he was getting paid

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1138633/index.htm

Jackson claims that Jones's handlers(the Levins, his dad was gone at that point), saw the fight as too high risk


So how can you claim he did not fight Jackson because his dad held him back?

The McClellan fight was there to get made from 93-94

Jones would turn down a number of fights at mw claiming that he wasn't getting offered enough to take high risk fights. He wanted a million pound. Not even the big names at mw were getting 1m, so it was ludicrous for Jones to demand such an amount

It's the reason that Seth Abraham and Merchant blame him for not making fights at mw.

What is your source for this?

Jones was not struggling to make the weight at mw. He would tell Merchant after the Malinga fight that he had no problem making the weight and that he was planning to defend his mw belt 3 times

Even during the Danny Garcia fight he would tell the commentators that he had no problem making 160lbs