Deontay Wilder versus Rocky Marciano

Stupid question. The skill level in hwt boxing is the worst I have ever seen. This is why, among other reasons, walking statues like the kilt brothers are able to dominate. No top hwt can even throw a left hook properly for heaven sakes. So you have poorly skilled top notchers fighting even more poorly skilled contenders. No great athlete wants to be involved in such a screwed up sport so they populate others. Since the advent of the cruiserweight division those under 200 pounds fight in that division....fret not since those in that division are as poor as those in the hwt division. Finally when you speak of Marciano, Dempsey, Louis your not talking about an ordinary sub 200 pounder. You are talking about all time great fighters...huge and incomparable difference.

 

Seamus,

I am not saying Rocky would be a star in the heavyweight division today, but undoubtedly he would defeat Deontay Wilder at this stage in wilder's career.

 

Seamus,

What cruiserweights in todays division do you see beating Marciano?

 

That is not the important question.

You could find a Cruiserweight who would be favourite over Wilder today, and you could probably find a light heavyweight who would be favourite over Wilder.

 

This has been explained to you a thousand times before.

In an era where any light heavyweight can bulk up to 210lbs, there efectivley is no equivalent of Marciano.

We will never again see a 185 pounder dominate the heavyweight division, because there will never again be such a fighter, but we will continue to see light heavyweights step up and be successful.

 

This one again...

Because of the new training that has become standardized fighters weigh more. Why would anyone want to fight that low these days? Heavyweights were artificially low in weight and now they artificially high.

Skill and workrate used to make the difference. The high competition among a high talent pool that actually fought each other demanded it. With less fighters, less competitive journeymen, bigger gloves and contenders rarely facing each other heavyweights have developed relying on brute force. It has slowed right down.

So even if an extra special A.T.G could dominate heavyweights even if he was as low as 185lb he is not going to need to be that light anymore. He won't need to train for endurance if the guys he faces are going to be less mobile and use one punch at a time. He's not needing to slip and manuover himself defensively if he can use the balloon gloves to sheild himself with is he?

 

I believe there are exceptions to the rule. Do you?

I believe combat sports are separate to other sports where the athletes develop faster and stronger with each generation because they are not punching each other in the face.

I believe competition makes great fights and that great fights make great fighters. All training does is prepare a fighter for battle. It's the fighting that makes him great not the training.

Mostly I believe fighters have to be proven. Is Wilder proven?

Size is a factor but just a factor. Being great is a bigger factor. Under exceptional circumstance being great is the biggest factor.

 

In my 3 years here on Classic, I've read some crazy stuff... but this thread has to be the funniest ever!

I especially like the contention, that during Marciano's reign the emphasis was on speed, accuracy and workrate... which produced an abundance of smaller (i.e. lighter) fighters so fast and brilliant, that heavier boxers stood no chance against them. This means, that those weights you can find on BoxRec for Marciano and his title opponents are very deceiving. You might think, they were no more than small cruiserweights, fighting at their natural weight - but this is not really the case. No, in actual fact, they were natural 200+ lbs heavyweights - who, in the golden age of sharpness and pace "had to boil down like track and field athletes just to get out of the club circuit"!!!

But instead of bickering about whether or not this is true, why don't we take a look at the heavyweight scene during the middle of Marciano's reign - say, 1954? Thanks to the internet, everybody can easily take a peek at The Ring's annual rankings - so let's see, who they rated the top 10 challengers to Marciano's throne, as of the end of that year (the weights are the last recorded for each boxer in 1954):

1. Nino Valdes........ 208½ lbs
2. Don C---ell........ 210½ lbs
3. Ezzard Charles.... 192½ lbs
4. Bob Barker......... 211 lbs
5. Earl Walls.......... 196 lbs
6. Heinz Neuhaus.... 214¾ lbs
7. Rex Layne........... 207¾ lbs
8. Tommy Jackson.. 190½ lbs
9. Charley Norkus... 192½ lbs
10. Jimmy Slade..... 175 lbs

Seems to me, like 200+ lbs heavyweights were doing just fine back then!

 

Kind of proves my point though. I think you are being a tad petty. Where are the superheavyweights within the rankings? Nino valdes and neuhaus were slimmed down superheavyweights were they not? Only 4 of the top ten over 200lb...And All of them lost to sub 190 pounders at some point. Well done.

 

dis iz e stupid post, u r duing your skrineim e big diservic.
U mait b e strong trivia pleyer , bat r not wel in4md ebaut haw it iz rigarding w8s end faiting in general .

 

He was a big and imposing fighter for his weight class, but there have always been guys who did ridiculous things to their bodies to get their weight down.

Toney was able to make 175lbs a lot later in life than many of the great light heavies.

 

Not even yet. Hahaha. It's if he could beat the journeymen of Marciano's day.

 

This is completely true. In order for a smaller man to ever have success against a bigger man he has to work much harder than he would against one his own size. And yes, less margin of error. You are corect but is the slower man as likely to exploit an error against a faster man than himself? What if the smaller guy is both tougher, more proven and already possessing a greater workrate and skillset? perhaps then this is less of a mountain to climb? Having to work harder against a fighter who cannot match you for stamina anyway is not as bad as working harder against a fighter who has as good or better workrate. Fighting a man who hits hard and lands more often than is comfortable to keep up with is also a problem no matter the size. Of course we are talking about a great heavyweight. exceptional circumstances.