the seminal moment when RJ no longer had the will...

He never did. When did he ever show such will?

 

He pretty clearly showed it against Griffin in the first fight. He also showed it against Tarver in the first fight. You people need to stop posting and find another sport to watch.

 

Huh? I saw those fights. No "roaring back to win"...

 

Depends on how you visualise 'roaring back to win' really, I guess.

A fighter can show heart, will, toughness and mental strength without having had their jaw broken, or their face turned in to a mass of claret, or having to peel themselves off the canvas multiple times. Jones' performance in the latter rounds against Tarver (I) weren't heroic to that degree, but he did still show will and bottle all the same.

He was totally out of sorts and definitely behind after 8 rounds, but dug deep, just about made the necessary adjustments (getting off the ropes for starters!) and came back to get the win. Not a totally convincing one, although I had him a couple of points ahead at the end, but he did show that he could win ugly, which he'd never really had to do before.

I don't think there was too much lacking from Jones in terms of heart and bottle, just a very sudden loss of his speed and athleticism, coupled with depleted punch resistance. When those things to, it's hard to even make it to the stages where heart and determination can come in to play.

 

He had the opportunity to do it in that fight, and failed...

 

it was the third tarver fight. that fight was even through six and then jones was gassed played it too safe. jones was too good to get credit from most for his "heart". it's a joke, jones took part in the most difficult and arguably the most dangerous sport in the world, dominated it for a decade but usually gets no respect from keyboard warriors who say that he didn't have heart.

 

I take you haven't watched the first Tarver fight?

 

"What's your excuse tonight, Roy?"

 

Excellent post.

 

Jones, Jr. is criminally underrated in these parts. Had he the career management of a Marciano and quit after the Ruiz fight (at 34 years old), there would be a lot of talk of him as a top 10 ATG. In fact, that talk had already started.

 

give it 20 years and jones'll likely move up the consensus rankings as far as his limited resume allows. awesome fighter, potentially awesome v top guys, we will never fully know how he would go against top opposition(i think ruiz either threw the fight or is the worst strategist in history(not just boxing, worse than hitler or rafa benitez, and those guys sucked strategies' balls)), good performances v toney and especially hopkins are the top of his resume imo.

not to disparage roy, as seamus says enough of that goes on already, his body was gone by tarver 3, why he carried on after tarver 2 is his own business, but i dont take after that to mean much.

 

That was the moment to call it quits and walk away, upon defeating Ruiz. He had accumulated too much muscularity to safely drop back down to 175, and I thought at the time it was a minor miracle he retained that title in Tarver I. Competing at CW was the only rational choice to be made after Ruiz, if he was to continue. Following Ruiz, people were seriously comparing him against Robinson on a P4P basis, but Tarver I, even though Roy took the MD, sorta squelched that. Instead, having now been punch out four times, fans are asking if he ever had a chin, survival skills, or any quality of resilience. He shoulda quit after Ruiz and left 'em guessing.

 

Yes, but he was 34 years old!

Salvador Sanchez only made it to 23 and he is in the Hall of Fame. Marciano quit at 32. Dempsey was done at the same age. Robinson was losing to guys like Fulmer at that age. You have to put it in perspective. I don't think people were wrong in their fantastic estimations of Jones. I mean, Jesus, he proved to the be the superior of two hall of famers in Toney and Hopkins, beating another one in McCallum (albeit longer in the tooth) and demolishing a very sturdy sub-HOF'er in Hill. Throw in destructions of guys like Malinga, Tate, Sosa and Griffin... that's a pretty damn good resume for the 1990's.