Carlos Monzon vs Jake LaMotta At MW

I doubt Monzon hit harder than Robinson but he was probably physically stronger. Jake used physical pressure and a wicked body assault to be a force in the middleweight division. Carlos could be a pretty nasty fighter just like LaMotta. I dont think Monzon is going to be able to keep LaMotta on the outside and fight at a comfortable pace. Going against the grain I`ll take Jake LaMotta by decision.

Dont seen a stoppage either way.

PS usually when LaMotta comes up in these Mythical Matchups people tend to think of the weight drained version of the early 50s. I think LaMotta from the mid 40s was a different fighter. He was at his best then.

 

I really liked the bronx bull but see this bout as one he can't win. I don't think Jake hit as hard as Rodrigo Valdez or could try to get in any harder then he did. Carlos via clear shots and alot of holding.

 

Carlos does it over the distance. Both men super tough but Monzon's better skills decide it.

 

here's those mid-40s fights.

1945-12-07 Charley Parham Chicago, US W TKO 6
1945-11-23 Walter Woods Boston, US W KO 8
1945-11-13 Coolidge Miller Bronx, US W KO 3
1945-09-26 Sugar Ray Robinson Chicago, US L SD 12
1945-09-17 George Kochan New York, US W TKO 9
1945-08-10 Jose Basora New York, US W TKO 9
1945-07-06 Tommy Bell New York, US W UD 10
1945-04-27 Bert Lytell Boston, US W SD 10
1945-04-20 Vic Dellicurti New York, US W UD 10
1945-03-26 George Costner Chicago, US W KO 6
1945-03-19 Lou Schwartz Norfolk, US W KO 1
1945-02-23 Sugar Ray Robinson New York, US L UD 10
1944-11-03 George Kochan Detroit, US W TKO 9
1944-09-29 George Kochan Detroit, US W PTS 10
1944-04-21 Lloyd Marshall Cleveland, US L UD 10
1944-03-31 Lou Woods Chicago, US W SD 10
1944-03-17 Coley Welch Boston, US W UD 10
1944-02-25 Ossie Harris Detroit, US W SD 10
1944-01-28 Ossie Harris Detroit, US W SD 10
1944-01-14 Fritzie Zivic Detroit, US W UD 10
1943-11-12 Fritzie Zivic New York, US W SD 10
1943-10-11 Johnny Walker Philadelphia, US W TKO 2
1943-09-17 Jose Basora Detroit, US W UD 10
1943-07-12 Fritzie Zivic Pittsburgh, US L SD 15
1943-06-10 Fritzie Zivic Pittsburgh, US W SD 10
1943-05-12 Tony Ferrara Cincinnati, US W KO 6
1943-03-30 Ossie Harris Pittsburgh, US W PTS 10
1943-03-19 Jimmy Reeves Detroit, US W KO 6
1943-02-26 Sugar Ray Robinson Detroit, US L UD 10
1943-02-05 Sugar Ray Robinson Detroit, US W UD 10
1943-01-22 Charley Hayes Detroit, US W TKO 6
1943-01-15 California Jackie Wilson New York, US W PTS 10
1943-01-01 Jimmy Edgar Detroit, US W SD 10
1942-11-06 Henry Chmielewski Boston, US W UD 10
1942-10-20 Bill McDowell Brooklyn, US W TKO 5
1942-10-02 Sugar Ray Robinson New York, US L UD 10
1942-09-08 Vic Dellicurti Bronx, US W PTS 10
1942-08-28 Jimmy Edgar New York, US W PTS 10
1942-07-28 Lorenzo Strickland Bronx, US W PTS 8
1942-06-16 Jose Basora Bronx, US L PTS 10
1942-06-02 Vic Dellicurti Bronx, US W PTS 10
1942-05-12 Jose Basora Bronx, US D PTS 10
1942-04-21 Buddy O'Dell Bronx, US W PTS 10
1942-04-07 Lou Schwartz Bronx, US W KO 9
1942-03-18 Lorenzo Strickland Bronx, US W PTS 10
1942-03-03 Frankie Jamison Bronx, US W PTS 8
1942-01-27 Frankie Jamison Bronx, US W PTS 8

I disagree with what you say, Jake for me IS a great sure, but an overrated one thanks to the movie the Raging Bull.

he beat some very good Contenders yes, but as I've maintained he fought a lot of Welterweight cum middleweights, struggled with loads of fighters and was beat by some great and smaller men too.

Monzon is too BIG, strong and methodical to lose to Jake.

 

Fair enough. Picking Monzon is reasonable.


That list looks pretty impressive to me. It was common for fighters to fight guys out of other divisions. There were some impressive Middlleweights on that list as well. Jimmy Edgar, Jackie Wilson, Tony Janiro, Holman Williams, Bob Satterfield we know was more of a Lightheavy.

I give Jake respect for taking on many of the tough black fighters that many other fighters with something to lose avoided.

The Raging Bull aside I think he`s underated.

 

For me Jake could beat fellow great middles like Zale but stylistically Monzon is wrong for him. I see Carlos winning by decision.

 

Monzon trounces Jake for a 15 round decision.

 

No way LaMotta the bull can overcome Monzon the octopus, the master of jab and grab.

 

Monzon was not strictly "jab and grab" octopus sort of fighter. In the 2nd Briscoe fight, in the last 5 rounds, he could have used those tactics, but he stood and traded toe to toe with bad Bennie..giving him a sporting chance in his own home country. Watch the fight and see what i mean.

 

Monzon takes a nailbiter against the Bronx Bull.But Jake doesn't go down.

 

What wasn't common was Jake fighting up against bigger guys, which is odd considering how common it was and how often he would come in weighing in the mid-160s against smaller guys, rather than at least making middleweight.

Look at his record and count how many times he was 8-10 pounds heavier, or more, and then find how many times he gave up significant weight ... hardly ever (the fight against Fox excepted).

LaMotta was a tough guy with one of the best chins ever, but he was way too often a super middleweight fighting against a welter who was coming in a few pounds over the 147 limit ... and yet you don't see LaMottta fighting light heavies very often when he was quite often above the 160 middle limit. His rep is built on fighting naturally smaller men.

He beat a one-armed man for the title and history robbed the world of a rematch when Cerdan died in a plane crash. Considering Jake lost his first fight after winning the title (in an over-the-weight match), there's a reasonable chance he would have lost to Cerdan had Cerdan's shoulder not been dislocated, and that he would have lost the rematch.

Monzon was a true middle and a beast. He batters Jake over the course of the fight and wears him down, probably getting a TKO by attrition.

 

A prime LaMotta would be a tough battle for anyone as he was for SRR. Monzon had talent but would have to keep Jake at a distance to take the decision and not an easy fight for him. In a series Jake may take a few from Monzon and Hagler

 

Jake gives him a very tough fight .. very tough match up if we're figuting the late 1940's LaMotta ..

 

Monzon has more tools, more control and loves to play matador. Wide decision in his favor.