Would jack johnson style work today

That's not true. When Johnson fought Williard, much taller, and a guy that preferred to counter, he would walk him in circles and sporadically attack, in a tight guard, with combination punching, short punches.

He could do it all.

He is probably the greatest heavy of all time. He's the Micheal Jordan of boxers.

 

discrediting Jeffries is folly, he was the greatest boxer under marquis of queensberry until Johnson. he had the opportunity to fight Johnson way before that. He never lost a fight until johnson, frankly he had no excuses, he would have gotten beaten and frankly any boxer who stepped in the ring with johnson after choyniski and him sparred for 23 days until he was an old man would meet the same fate.

He fought a 6'6 beast at the end of his career and was winning through 20+ rounds and frankly had the fight occured in the modern era he'd have a ud in 12 or 15. He knocked out a 6'7 colorado giant who outweighed him significantly in 2 rounds. I am not buying the he can't beat big guys argument. Back then the average height was 2-3 inches shorter. Had Johnson lived in the modern era he would probably be closer to 6'2 or 6'3 maybe even 6'4. People had poor nutrition back then and he was born a son of slaves, I am sure he went to bed hungry many nights. There was a fight I was watching of Johnson where his opponent was similar height of him and seemed to have a reach advantage, he was trying to jab johnson to death, throws about 10 jabs in a row at least. Johnson side stepped all of them by moving to his opponents right. The exact same move Muhammad Ali use to do against big punchers. This is because the right hand is farther away, and when you step in towards it you can see it coming better and move out its way. It is also harder for an opponent to get power on it because he can't plant his feet that way.

Of the list you named Jack would eat Larry for dinner and ali would get you a fight with 2 defensive masters, little action and few real big hits. It would not be a brawl fest. It'd look like the modern day equivalent of rigondeaux vs mayweather or lara or something, 2 slick guys barely hitting each other. Frankly it could go either way no one is going to get tired, it'd be a nightmare to judge, because you'd be lucky if 15 punches landed in a whole round. Both guys have the ability to just run away from each other for 6 rounds straight. I would predict a slim win for Johnson but it could easily be a slim win for Ali.

Holyfield would be an interesting matchup. I would not expect him to win, but holyfield never folds under pressure.

Holmes is grossly overrrated and very beatable by any fighter with timing especially who is smaller. H'es always had trouble fighting well good fighters. There is no reason to believe that jack would perform any worse than spinks. The jab is grossly overrated here, roberto duran shows us how great those jabs like iran barkely become a huge liability. And jack would have had the ability to exploit. Jack knocked out far bigger men and frankly larry was always a lil soft in the middle. I don't see him survivng johnsons onslaught of body punches and inside uppercuts. Larry's largely telegrahed jab works well against old men on their last leg with mild ******ation like ali or norton but not on serious boxers. As much as I dislike Tyson he beat everyone around in his prime. Larry barely beat 10 of the guys he fought and got wins for. If guys like norton or witherspoon etc could do this to him, he'd get aniihilated. He ducked pinky and the top fighters of his time.

Agreed. Frankly I only see a few guys, prime ali and prime frazier. The first because he is very similar. The second because he has a reputation for wearing men down over time and his lunging punching style. Frankly frazier is tough for anyone around to beat.

 

Not really because Jeffries already stated he wouldn't fight johnson even if he won and he would retire. Part of the reason he DID retire is because he knew he could only avoid fighting Johnson so long and eventually he'd have to.

 

I disagree.

Even if we accept that Jeffries was afraid of Johnson (nobody would have believed it at the time), Hart’s win over Johnson would have bought him a lot of breathing space.

Jeffries retired because there wee no big money fights out there for him, because everybody basically thought that he was invincible, and because he did not like the game or the fan attention.

 

Janitor.

 

Jeffries did not come down from 300+ lbs, and he was down to weight 6 months before the fight,neither was he flabby, he was hard at 227lbs.

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I've noticed one poster particularly thinks little of Holmes in comparison to Johnson, and while not the norm among those with histories in boxing its to be respected non the less. Larry however ducked no one and Pinklon was never an outstanding contender, his loss to Berbick puts his overall abilities in clarity. As Champion Larry defended against seven undefeated challengers as well as a in his prime Shavers (Witherspoon, Snipes, Frank, Bey, Williams, Cooney, Jones). Also while this poster thinks little of Larry's jab which is is his perspective, at large the boxing community rates it among if not the best in heavyweight history. Text book from the shoulder as perfect and non telegraphed as one could be. Larry's decline was clearly visable by the time he beat William's and it just continued into the Spink's losses.

As for Johnson's style it wasn't for everyone, I practiced the nuances and footwork for several years and used it in two bouts and it was intriguing. Lets just say it worked perfectly for Jack in his day against largely one punch at a time fighters, and Fleisher having seen boxing technique and footwork evolve from that time still considered Johnson the best of all the heavyweights at the time of his death in 1972 and that does carry some weight to this discussion.

 

I did see what your talking about in the Williard bout TJ. In other bouts when moving forward quickly Jack had to bring his sideways back foot in front of the other and its adverse to modern boxing footwork which is ball of foot to ball of foot with no crossing. But again I thought also that Jack showed off some of his best skills against Jess and that being out of shape too.

 

timmers brought up a good point regarding Johnson's style and that is it was a good one for the type of punches thrown at him at the time he fought which was one at a time for the most part. I can't help but wonder if he could've successfully avoided a flurry of punches from a modern sized good HW ala Holmes, Ali etc..Given his physical skills I think he probably could have but I still think he would have to adjust his style a bit. An occasional swing from the likes of Willard is a lot different than a 4 or 5 punch combination from Ali or Louis or Holmes, especially when you factor in thier advantages in height and reach. Willard was taller with a reach advantage as well but he didn't maximize that advantage due to his style which is why Johnson was pitching a shutout until he got tired. I'm not anti Johnson for the record. I think he's one of the greatest champions the division ever had but I still wonder how he would do against future HW greats due to his unique style. Would that fencers stance stand him in good stead against a big fleet footed fighter who throws punches in bunches...all behind a hard fast jab. parrying one shot from a fighter isn't difficult for someone like Johnson. Avoiding a hard fast combination from someone like Ali, Tyson etc is a different story. This has been an interesting topic with a lot of good input from different posters and it's helped me see this one through.

 

Great boxing skill is great boxing skill and Johnson had it at a very high level. He would be successful in any era....as would Dempsey, Tunney, Louis, Ali.

 

johnson was a great boxer period. he would do very well at any time from 6 to 60 rounds. he had great control of tempo, distance, jab, hard hitter, inside, outside, with fantastic reflexs, feel for the game, experience, relaxed and confident. had he came 30 years later he would have learned some more techinques in about 2 days and have been even better. better than ali imo

 

Let's get out of rainbow cream puff world regarding Johnson and admit a few things...


Firstly, he was en erratic performer... Choynski, Hart, O'Brien, Johnson... these weren't guys who would scare modern heavyweights and Johnson went Life and Death, lost to two of them and could have lost to all of them. And lest yea think there was some great skill involved betwixt these, gander upon Jim Johnson, speed corrected footage, in his prime..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pay6XBYfnRc

My opinion is that Johnson's style would not be his major shortcoming today but his consistency and his ability.

 

Yikes the truth comes out. But his style of hitting and holding would not be allowed today, and his punch out out was on the low side.


His guard was low too. It would be target practice for Wlad.

 

Everyone is entitled to their point of view regarding how Johnson wuld adapt to today. but to use as an example a fight in which Johnson was past prime at 35, was a fugitive from his own country, had not fought in a year and a half, and was fighting with a broken arm from the 3rd round onwards is not only blatantly dishonest it is f*****g stupid .



About as f*****g stupid as claiming the 2nd rd win Jim Johnson scored over Harry Wills when Wills retired with a broken wrist is a great victory.

NB Jack Johnson ,[ unlike Wills,] did NOT quit with his broken arm he struggled through the next 7 rounds to earn a draw at the finish.
As to Jim Johnson's abilities?
The amount of BS we hear about how Jack Johnson was scared to death of his black challengers,is repetitious garbage .

The other numpty who has chimed in here who was praising Jeff Clark up the other day and not long ago claimed Jack Johnson should have fought him.
Well Jim Johnson fought Clark three times, he lost to him , drew with him and beat him.
Battling Jim also beat Joe Jeannette x2 and also drew with him.
Jim drew with Sam McVey. Twice drew with Sam Langford ,and kod Arthur Pelkey.
So if he was crap, so were they, and Jack Johnson would therefore have eaten them for breakfast.
Jim Johnson scored 19 by kos in 22 wins, he was a big, strong ,muscular heavy hitter ,who lacked finesse.

Enough with the puerile rubbish.
I expect it from the idiot who posted on your coat tails but thought better of you.

Erratic performer ?
He went unbeaten for 10 years!





[Actually, maybe not much better ]