Dempsey's greatness.

Correct U. They overlook the truly 1 round demolition of the 6ft6" Jess Willard who not great was an iron man who was never dropped before. He took every punch in the book for over 25 rounds from Jack Johnson, in Havana's 105% sun, and never wilted biding his time. Who today could do
that ?
He almost decapitated the 6ft5" Fred Fulton who stopped Sam Langford, in .023 seconds of the first round in 1918. They had to drag the unconscious Fulton to his corner.
He flattened a crude but bullish Firpo in the second round with a one-two
so fast and powerful, it can hardly be seen on film. Just the result showing Firpo on his back in la la land...
I have the greatest love and respect for my favorite heavyweight fighter Joe Louis...In and out of the ring...
But, in 1941, a prime Joe Louis hit a big ponderous Abe Simon with EVERY
PUNCH in the book for THIRTEEN rounds without koing Simon who was still
on his feet til the referee stopped the fight...Does any unbiased person
think Abe Simon would get past the 2nd round with the prime Manassa
Mauler ? I have asked this question before ?
I have been interested in boxing history for 6 decades now, and I never thought I would have to defend the greatness of Jack Dempsey until I joined ESB. Political correctness run amok, maybe !

 

Dempseys footwork is amazing....always on his toes moving in and out or side to side. Firpo spinning Dempsey and catching him with a right hand does not mean his footwork is poor.

Fighters from that period fought with hands low in ready punching position and to protect from body blows and instead used head movement, rolls, bobbing and weaving to avoid head shots. Leonard, Tunney, Corbett ...most all the great boxers from that day fought in similar fashion. Tommy Loughran was one of boxings all time boxers and again you will see a lower guard. Much more reliance on great boxing technique in those days vs today where everyone is constantly in cover up mode.

At no time did Dempsey become unhinged from his game plan. Once hit and hurt he as per his trainers words...became the old Dempsey firing 6 inch combinations, ducking Firpos right and working inside where his opponent could do less damage.

Your hatred toward Dempsey pours out in every word you type. Such a highly distorted viewpoint. Completely wrong, inaccurate and void of credibility.

 

It was a slugfest.

 

Can't argue with any of that.
Jess Willard, I think, was not at his best, being old and inactive ... BUT I can't ignore the manner in which Dempsey, at 187 pounds, destroyed him.
I can't go along with people who suggest that several other fighters of Dempsey's size would have done the same to Willard.
Fred Fulton was on a pretty good run when he faced Dempsey. He was rated as the leading heavyweight at the time. Again, Dempsey conceded significant weight - 20 pounds I think, and about 3 or 4 inches in height, several inches in reach.
Even the fact that Dempsey OUTPOINTED Tommy Gibbons, coming off a 2-year lay-off and noticeably rusty, shouldn't be dismissed.

 

Sure, you can appreciate lots of things better watching the footage. But other aspects - such as the sheer intensity of a superb fighter and the power and accuracy - tend to jump out at me more when it's happening in REAL 3D in the same vicinity. The screen softens the blows and softens other visceral aspects of combat, esp. in the older films.

You're not wrong. You can analyze better on film.
But it's not just that.
Interestingly, I've noticed on some footage of some old fights where the film cuts from the 'normal' angle (whether distant or medium-close) to a really close 'ringside' view (filmed from below) the whole intensity of the fight is ratcheted up.

I guess the more angles the better, but often TV leaves something to be desired. Footwork is often missing on film too of course.

 

**

 

Which is what got Dempsey into the situation in which he found himself... and why he rightfully should have lost.

 

Mc, I saw the power and horrible results of rocky Marciano's punches landing on the poor Carmine Vingo's head at MSG,1949...We had perfect seats sitting in the front seats of the side balcony just over the clock not far from ringside. Terrible to see...But a while later I sat in the airplane hanger at Grossinger's CC in Sullivan County, where Rocky was in intense training for a fight in NY . I sat about 3 feet away from the pitched ring
and saw Marciano fight a few sparring partners 1 rd apiece...THEN I saw
and heard the tremendous thudding of Rocky's powerful blows on the arms and body of his larger sparring partners. Sitting but a few feet away from the floor level ring, was an experience and true appreciation of brutality
that television can never duplicate...Never...And veteran boxing reporters
who watched young vicious hitting Dempsey from the first row had the best view to determine the greatness and ferocity of a Dempsey, a Langford,
a Harry Greb than anyone sitting in front of a tv set...I have seen thousands of bouts on tv,since my 12" tv set we bought. Wonderful to watch, BUT to be sitting in the first row gives one a truer appreciation
of the real essence of a fighter...And the hardened reporters who saw young Dempsey wreck havoc from ringside, and wrote about his fights were
so impressed with this Dempsey, they called him a man-killer for a good reason...TV on my 52" flat screen doesn't compare with being in the first rows at ringside...Jack Dempsey in his peak at 188 was probably the most destructive puncher ever P4P, along with Sam Langford...Give the man his due...His likes we will never see again...cheers...
politics aside...cheers.

 

mr. bienstock knows his stuff, to put it mildly

 

very astute in regards to body protection, hands lower, head and foot movement. later on they found that higher hand placement with head movement was a good overall defense while maintaing good body protection especially for those lacking offense presence and who have limited footwork.

 

Tommy Gibbons said Dempsey was far from being the man killer that the press contended he was... But then again, what would Tommy Gibbons know?

 

Sam Langford, Gene tunney, Mickey Walker, Jack Sharkey and Max Schmeling said that Jack Dempsey was the greatest heavyweight they had seen. BUT THEN AGAIN WHAT WOULD THEY KNOW ?.
There is no fighter who ever breathed that kod every opponent they fought.
And S , though you are a lover of Jack Dempsey, I will take the words of these distinguished fighters I cite above over yours, anyplace, anytime !

 

Not asking you to take my word for it, Burt.

"Dempsey is easy to feint, and easy to hit. He isn't the man killer you've heard about. Billy Miske hits just as hard. The trouble with Dempsey's hitting is that you can see 'em coming. If he had been a quick hitter he could have knocked me out of the state." - Tommy Gibbons.