Floyd Mayweather Has Never Defeated A Peak ATG Top 20 Weight Division Champ

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Strongback, Sep 9, 2013.


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  1. Strongback

    Strongback Boxing Addict Full Member

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    What I am saying is to be a Top 20 ATG fighter, which some are calling Mayweather ,then you have to say, well were are Mayweather's wins against the very best to justify that.

    Some people have Mayweather in the Top 10 fighters that ever lived. Now I might see an argument that Mayweather is an ATG Top 10 in terms of genetic gifts and talent but he doesn't have a resume that comes anywhere near these guys who all have defeated ATG divisional fighters.

    Floyd's obvious fight was Pacquiao but letting that one go severely hurts his legacy. Lesser so no fight with a prime Shane or Oscar who both will make the ATG divisional lists.


    Here's the IBRO ATG p4p Top 10 list which isn't perfect but it's a reference point. Every one of these guys has beaten other ATG p4p'ers or Divisional champs.


    1. Sugar Ray Robinson
    2. Harry Greb
    3. Henry Armstrong
    4. Muhammad Ali (Tie)
    4. Joe Louis (Tie)
    6. Sam Langford
    7. Roberto Duran
    8. Benny Leonard
    9. Willie Pep
    10. Bob Fitzsimmons
     
    Strongback, Sep 10, 2013
    Strongback, Sep 10, 2013
    #61
  2. MoJoGoodie

    MoJoGoodie Boxing Addict Full Member

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    the criteria is stupid honestly.....just plain stupid

    also who the hell is saying Floyd is Top 20 ATG? or even Top 10? Throw some names out here sounds like your comming up with it to just talk him down for no reason.
     
    MoJoGoodie, Sep 10, 2013
    MoJoGoodie, Sep 10, 2013
    #62
  3. Strongback

    Strongback Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Plenty of people have been saying it.


    My criteria for rating a fighter is the same criteria used by boxing historians since the inception of the sport: fighting skills, performances, longevity at the top and opposition.


    Mayweather scores high on everything except opposition. It holds back his legacy. He could have been right up there.
     
    Strongback, Sep 10, 2013
    Strongback, Sep 10, 2013
    #63
  4. RODNEY MORASH

    RODNEY MORASH C♯ Sharp or B♭ Flat Full Member

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    ..
     
    RODNEY MORASH, Sep 10, 2013
    RODNEY MORASH, Sep 10, 2013
    #64
  5. Strongback

    Strongback Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think we are saying the same things. The only point I have is that to be the very best in the Top 10 or 20 greatest of all time then you need to have it all: great performances, longevity, skill set and opposition.
     
    Strongback, Sep 10, 2013
    Strongback, Sep 10, 2013
    #65
  6. Barrera

    Barrera Defeated Boxing_master Full Member

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    so i take it you dont believe floyds brittle hands caused his retirement ?
     
    Barrera, Sep 10, 2013
    Barrera, Sep 10, 2013
    #66
  7. flashy k.o

    flashy k.o Supporter of E.E fighters Full Member

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    IMO its not about defeating a top ATG at his peak, its more about fighting with the prime-top ranked fighters from your division !

    Look at these Ring Magazine's welterweights rankings from 2006 - 2010 :

    ww 2010

    Title Vacant

    Manny Pacquiao vs Floyd ?????? :think
    Floyd Mayweather Jr.
    Andre Berto
    Miguel Cotto
    Shane Mosley
    Joshua Clottey
    Jan Zaveck
    Vyacheslav Senchenko
    Rafal Jackiewicz
    Timothy Bradley


    ww (2009)

    Title Vacant

    Manny Pacquiao vs Floyd ??
    Shane Mosley vs Floyd ??
    Floyd Mayweather Jr.
    Miguel Cotto vs Floyd ??
    Joshua Clottey
    Antonio Margarito
    Andre Berto
    Luis Collazo
    Rafal Jackiewicz
    Jan Zaveck


    ww 2008

    Title Vacant

    Antonio Margarito vs Floyd ??
    Miguel Cotto vs Floyd ??
    Shane Mosley vs Floyd ??
    Joshua Clottey
    Manny Pacquiao
    Carlos Quintana
    Zab Judah
    Luis Collazo
    Andre Berto
    Isaac Hlatshwayo


    Welterweights ( 2007)

    Floyd Mayweather Jr., Champion

    Miguel Cotto vs Floyd ??
    Paul Williams vs Floyd ??
    Shane Mosley vs Floyd ??
    Antonio Margarito vs Floyd ??
    Zab Judah
    Kermit Cintron
    Luis Collazo
    Joshua Clottey
    Jackson Osei Bonsu
    Oktay Urkal



    Welterweights 2006

    Floyd Mayweather Jr., Champion

    Antonio Margarito vs Floyd ??
    Carlos Manuel Baldomir
    Miguel Cotto vs Floyd ??
    Zab Judah
    Luis Collazo
    Kermit Cintron
    Oktay Urkal
    Arturo Gatti
    Paul Williams
    Joshua Clottey

    Floyd missed some good fights ...

    I don't know if it was cherrypicking , ducking or other reasons. What's sure its that some very good fights didn't happen back then. :-(
     
    flashy k.o, Sep 10, 2013
    flashy k.o, Sep 10, 2013
    #67
  8. illwill007

    illwill007 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    That's a fair and objective thought process. Critiquing is fine and should be encouraged, rather than dismissed by rabid fans. Floyd also took some very good fights during that period. Floyd vs Shane was a very good fight at the time, and one that a lot of people claimed Mayweather would duck. 2007 was time to get paid. What boxer would choose to fight Margarito, Mosley, Williams or Cotto over De la hoya, and Hatton. 2006 he fought Baldomir, and Judah.

    Not bad IMO. Personally, I would have loved to see him fight a Margarito or Williams, because of the size, chin and output of those fighters. It would have been a UD in my opinion. I think the only fight I really wish we got was 2010 Pacquaio. I still think that the Pacquiao of today makes a great fight. Floyd, for the first time since 2006, would be fighting someone with faster feet and hands.
     
    illwill007, Sep 10, 2013
    illwill007, Sep 10, 2013
    #68
  9. -GhettoWizard-

    -GhettoWizard- Well-Known Member Full Member

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    funny but youre leaving out when mosley was recognized at #1 when mayweather signed to fight him
     
    -GhettoWizard-, Sep 10, 2013
    -GhettoWizard-, Sep 10, 2013
    #69
  10. illwill007

    illwill007 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Good point! :good
     
    illwill007, Sep 10, 2013
    illwill007, Sep 10, 2013
    #70
  11. flashy k.o

    flashy k.o Supporter of E.E fighters Full Member

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    basically I agree with you but I'd have loved to see those fights happening back then. :yep
     
    flashy k.o, Sep 10, 2013
    flashy k.o, Sep 10, 2013
    #71
  12. flashy k.o

    flashy k.o Supporter of E.E fighters Full Member

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    well yes , my bad ! You have right.
     
    flashy k.o, Sep 10, 2013
    flashy k.o, Sep 10, 2013
    #72
  13. ImBetterThanJoe

    ImBetterThanJoe Active Member Full Member

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    so whats your point? he can only beat wat is infront of him. he claims hes the best. thats his opinion. which he is entitled to. just like u are to yours. so whats ur point. he hasnt beat a atg top 20. who cares. he is still an amazing talent to watch.
     
    ImBetterThanJoe, Sep 10, 2013
    ImBetterThanJoe, Sep 10, 2013
    #73
  14. Strongback

    Strongback Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If you are rating an ATG you look at great performances, longevity, skill set and opposition. All the very top guys tick the box on all four of these aspects. Mayweather ticks 3 of the 4 boxes. If he had made a few more of the available fights happen he could have gone down as a fringe Top 10. That's not happening now.

    That's my point. I've said it a few times at this stage.
     
    Strongback, Sep 10, 2013
    Strongback, Sep 10, 2013
    #74
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