Muhammad Ali's 'controversial' decisions.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Stevie G, Sep 11, 2013.

  1. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    There is always somebody scoring any bout that may differ from the actual scoring. Ali was disliked by some in the press. The scoring of each round was announced on tv after each round of this bout . No controversy here. Shavers strategy was to not over extend himself until the last 3 rounds...in the process he lost most of these rounds.
     
  2. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    That it was announced after each round created another controversy, with Ali's corner knowing the scorecards, and Shavers' not being smart enough or being too honest to have somebody watch the tv in the dressing room and pass the scoring to the cornermen. In any case, Ali only had done enough to win 6 or 7 rounds at most, the rest were clearly Shavers' on aggressiveness and damage.
     
  3. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Very true. A fighter needs to actually score with his punches.
     
  4. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Shavers was scoring with plenty of punches that did damage. It was more effective than Ali's slapping.
     
  5. Anubis

    Anubis Boxing Addict

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    I've always believed Shavers was Ali's true Manila, where Earnie actually inflicted irreversible motor coordination neurological damage. Nobody else ever stood up to the kind of repeated head shots Shavers struck Muhammad with, and this was the only instance were Ali's recall of the action was compromised [although he could definitely confirm that Earnie was by far the hardest puncher he ever got hit by]. Most of Muhammad's previous sustained beatings were to his body, not his head. Even Berbick and Holmes later targeted his body. It's been suggested that Ali's post Manila resume added nothing to his historical standing, but I think it was Shavers more than anybody else who ultimately secured his reputation as having an ATG HW chin.

    Earnie was an extremely extremely popular and well liked character who people deeply rooted for, and it was a wide spread opinion at the time he did enough to take Ali's title. However, Shavers himself has indicated that he believes the decision in favor of Muhammad was accurate, and said immediately after that decision was announced in the ring that he didn't feel he was aggressive enough, and would go after Ali more in a rematch after learning for certain he could compete well over the championship distance. [Earnie won round 14 on all three cards by the way, an achievement other heavy sluggers like Liston, Lyle and Foreman never got a chance to realize.]

    For me, the chin and stamina of Shavers are somewhat underrated qualities. Four ten round decision wins, including one each over the competent Vincente Rondon and Henry Clark, and three tenth round knockout wins. In 89 career bouts, he was down around seven times, the last against Yates when he was 50. Unlike Foreman, he never sustained multiple knockdowns in a single bout. He didn't have the chin and stamina of a Marciano, but they were better than commonly represented as.

    1976 was probably his peak year at age 31, and he later showed against the deadly punching Jeff Sims [who was being touted as the reincarnation of Liston] that he could get off the floor and come from behind to win [finally shedding the "front runner" label Jerry Quarry earlier tagged him with on a CBS broadcast].
     
  6. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Chin and stamina are underrated with Shavers? Are you joking? Talk about the ultimate of revisionism! Did you live through those times? Shavers did have stamina and chin issues...not debatable if you lived through those times and watched the man fight. The way he lasted 15 rounds with Ali is.....he did not fight! He covered up hands held high and occasionally pot shotted Ali with a very hard punch. In-between it was all Ali, jabbing and scoring. No controversy here aside from a scribe here and there. Ali won 8-9 solid rounds.
     
  7. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    :lol:

    That's as muddled a metaphor as I'd ever read. I like it. :good
     
  8. Vince Voltage

    Vince Voltage Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Houdini, you authoritative know-it-all. The reason why there wasn't controversy after Ali-Shavers is this: Because the commentators were making it sound like Ali was winning. They took the judges questionable open-scoring at that time as gospel. They never, ever questioned it, just went along for the ride, and everyone else, hearing their ongoing Ali worship and declarations that Ali was winning, just jumped on board. Yes, Earnie could have been much more aggressive, however he landed some sledgehammer shots to Ali's head, and many of Ali's punches were blocked on Earnie's high guard. The ones that did get through were pokes and slaps, with the exceptions of Ali's last round flurry. If the commentators hadn't been in awe of Ali- like everyone else was in those days- there would have indeed been controversy after the fight. Earnie has said Ali won because he is humble and is himself very reverent of Ali. How many hard, clean shots to the champ's head does one have to land to get a fair shake?
     
  9. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Vince...your another poster who does not know what they are talking about. I watched that fight live and lived in the NY area where writers from the NY times and Daily news hated Ali and even from them they felt no issue with the decision. Ali won that fight free and clear...very few dissenters from ringside favored Shavers. If Earnie had fought more often the way he fought the last three rounds then I would be the first to agree. You don't win the hwt championship of the world by conserving your energy for the last three rounds. Revisionism is one thing but now Shavers had a good chin and stamina? Ali really lost to Shavers? My god what planet do you people come from? Honestly!
     
  10. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Just an example...if you want more let me know...

    AP 10-5. Ali
    UPI 8-6-1. Ali
    NY Daily news. 9-6 Ali
     
  11. Vince Voltage

    Vince Voltage Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I come from the same planet as you. LOTS of people feel Shavers deserved at least a draw. I'm not one to be fooled by movement and light-fisted flurries that rarely land flush, which is all Ali had that night.
     
  12. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    A challenger can't stand in center ring hands high not punching and expect to win the worlds hwt championship. Earnie who I admire greatly had a game plan to out Ali, Ali, that night so instead of throwing punches and tiring himself out he pot shotted, did not overextend himself and waited until the late stages of the fight to go for the ko. It almost worked as he rocked Ali as bad as I ever saw him rocked in rounds 13 and 14. Problem is Earnie did not get the ko and he gave away too many rounds over the first 12 to win a decision. End of story. Close but no cigar. Was not a controversial decision although the Garden crowd admiring Earnies late rally booed the decision. AP, UPI, NY Daily news, NYtimes all called the fight for Ali.
     
  13. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ali - 1,3,5,10,11,15
    Shavers - 2,4,6,7,8,9,13,14
    draw - 12
     
  14. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ali won 8 out of the first 12 rounds more or less..not just the judges but also AP and the two major NY newspapers, my scorecard...most other sources.
     
  15. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Maybe they all liked slapping, how do I know? If I have to choose between 5 hard punches and 20 slaps, I'll choose the former.