Mayweather with out a doubt is a ATG

Vanboxingfan · Sep 16, 2013

HitBattousai said: ↑

He is not considered to be fighting the best because even though for example, Canelo was a champion at 154 lbs, anyone who watched his fights against Trout and Gomez could see that he wasn't developed enough to be near ready for Floyd, nor did he have a good resume before in terms of high level fighters. Throw in the catchweight stuff(which Floyd said he didn't do when it was Cotto) and the win is lessened. It's still a decent win, but basically in terms of level in the ring, Floyd is a A+ fighter that is content to beat a lot of B level competition if you look at his opposition in general.

In terms of the obvious fighters he should have fought, Pacquiao prior to 2011, Martinez prior to the Chavez Jr fight, and Cotto prior to the Margarito fight. And there's plenty of matchups where I think Floyd would win, but style-wise presented different challenges, such as Paul Williams and Margarito(who obviously called him out repeatedly). I don't have to think that Ali would have beaten Earnie Shavers, George Foreman, etc, because Ali faced all those challenges. Floyd doesn't do that. He takes on a small number of fighters that present the right risk reward ratio for his bank account and health, not his legacy. You can argue that some of the fighters in question avoided Floyd rather than the other way around(even though I think that argument is pretty weak given Floyd's history), but even now, he could try to truly push himself by doing something like moving up to 160 lbs and taking on Golovkin(who is good but no Hagler). He's proven himself to be "the man" at 154, so why not take it that step further? But that's not what Floyd's about.

And the bottom line is SRL has Duran, Hearns, Hagler, and Benitez on his resume. Ali has Liston, Frazier, and Foreman on his. Floyd, regardless of reason, has nobody on the level of any of those fighters on his ledger. That can't be ignored when ranking Floyd among the greats. So as things stand, he's a solid top 35 ATG for me, which is excellent. But if he pushed himself more, he might have been a lot higher.
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While I rank him higher than you do, your points are dead on. :good

papadoc28 · Sep 16, 2013

HitBattousai said: ↑

He is not considered to be fighting the best because even though for example, Canelo was a champion at 154 lbs, anyone who watched his fights against Trout and Gomez could see that he wasn't developed enough to be near ready for Floyd, nor did he have a good resume before in terms of high level fighters. Throw in the catchweight stuff(which Floyd said he didn't do when it was Cotto) and the win is lessened. It's still a decent win, but basically in terms of level in the ring, Floyd is a A+ fighter that is content to beat a lot of B level competition if you look at his opposition in general.

In terms of the obvious fighters he should have fought, Pacquiao prior to 2011, Martinez prior to the Chavez Jr fight, and Cotto prior to the Margarito fight. And there's plenty of matchups where I think Floyd would win, but style-wise presented different challenges, such as Paul Williams and Margarito(who obviously called him out repeatedly). I don't have to think that Ali would have beaten Earnie Shavers, George Foreman, etc, because Ali faced all those challenges. Floyd doesn't do that. He takes on a small number of fighters that present the right risk reward ratio for his bank account and health, not his legacy. You can argue that some of the fighters in question avoided Floyd rather than the other way around(even though I think that argument is pretty weak given Floyd's history), but even now, he could try to truly push himself by doing something like moving up to 160 lbs and taking on Golovkin(who is good but no Hagler). He's proven himself to be "the man" at 154, so why not take it that step further? But that's not what Floyd's about.

And the bottom line is SRL has Duran, Hearns, Hagler, and Benitez on his resume. Ali has Liston, Frazier, and Foreman on his. Floyd, regardless of reason, has nobody on the level of any of those fighters on his ledger. That can't be ignored when ranking Floyd among the greats. So as things stand, he's a solid top 35 ATG for me, which is excellent. But if he pushed himself more, he might have been a lot higher.
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Do you have any freakin' clue of the backlash that would have occurred if Floyd said no to Canelo's challenge because he felt he was to green? Do you think people would have been understanding? Please tell me your not that delusional.

Funny how you happily gloss over the fighters that wanted nothing to do with Floyd when he was ready and willing to jump up weight classes to make the fights happen. But yet your more than happy to point out the Margarito's and Williams of the world.

BingM3 · Sep 16, 2013

He will be an ATG, but him not fighting certain fighters in their prime would cause a lower ranking if he keeps avoiding them....which is sad for boxing fans

A fight with a prime MOSLEY, COTTO, AM and PAC would have made him TOP DOG

He waits, and waits and waits and them let's make it happen, demands, wait....LOLatsch

victor879 · Sep 16, 2013

HitBattousai said: ↑

He is not considered to be fighting the best because even though for example, Canelo was a champion at 154 lbs, anyone who watched his fights against Trout and Gomez could see that he wasn't developed enough to be near ready for Floyd, nor did he have a good resume before in terms of high level fighters. Throw in the catchweight stuff(which Floyd said he didn't do when it was Cotto) and the win is lessened. It's still a decent win, but basically in terms of level in the ring, Floyd is a A+ fighter that is content to beat a lot of B level competition if you look at his opposition in general.

In terms of the obvious fighters he should have fought, Pacquiao prior to 2011, Martinez prior to the Chavez Jr fight, and Cotto prior to the Margarito fight. And there's plenty of matchups where I think Floyd would win, but style-wise presented different challenges, such as Paul Williams and Margarito(who obviously called him out repeatedly). I don't have to think that Ali would have beaten Earnie Shavers, George Foreman, etc, because Ali faced all those challenges. Floyd doesn't do that. He takes on a small number of fighters that present the right risk reward ratio for his bank account and health, not his legacy. You can argue that some of the fighters in question avoided Floyd rather than the other way around(even though I think that argument is pretty weak given Floyd's history), but even now, he could try to truly push himself by doing something like moving up to 160 lbs and taking on Golovkin(who is good but no Hagler). He's proven himself to be "the man" at 154, so why not take it that step further? But that's not what Floyd's about.

And the bottom line is SRL has Duran, Hearns, Hagler, and Benitez on his resume. Ali has Liston, Frazier, and Foreman on his. Floyd, regardless of reason, has nobody on the level of any of those fighters on his ledger. That can't be ignored when ranking Floyd among the greats. So as things stand, he's a solid top 35 ATG for me, which is excellent. But if he pushed himself more, he might have been a lot higher.
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He was the #1 fighter in the division. Period. Stop downplaying Canelo and give credit to Floyd, where it is due. All this excuse making is disgusting, give the man his due.

You say he doesn't have Duran, Hearns, Hagler, and Benitez on his resume? No ****, they were retired a long time ago. Floyd can only fight the guys HERE TODAY. "The #1 fighter in the division isn't ready for Floyd Mayweather Jr. at 36, almost 37 years of age..."

The fact you even named Margarito as any kind of threat is ****ing ridiculous as well. That guy didn't do **** and didn't fight nobody with his trinket for ****ing years, and when he did, he LOST. You guys got some nerve.

SteelShoulders · Sep 16, 2013

you can only argue the dumb **** about "Floyd retired to duck margs and p will" if you dksab floyd's easily an ATG saturday was just stat padding. Boxing is NOT who you beat and when you beat it's an eye test you have to judge upon what you've seen

HitBattousai · Sep 16, 2013

victor879 said: ↑

He was the #1 fighter in the division. Period. Stop downplaying Canelo and give credit to Floyd, where it is due. All this excuse making is disgusting, give the man his due.

You say he doesn't have Duran, Hearns, Hagler, and Benitez on his resume? No ****, they were retired a long time ago. Floyd can only fight the guys HERE TODAY. "The #1 fighter in the division isn't ready for Floyd Mayweather Jr. at 36, almost 37 years of age..."

The fact you even named Margarito as any kind of threat is ****ing ridiculous as well. That guy didn't do **** and didn't fight nobody with his trinket for ****ing years, and when he did, he LOST. You guys got some nerve.
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It's not excuses, it's fact. The best fighter on Canelo's resume is Trout, who he beat in a fight that could have gone either way and Trout is not some ridiculously elite fighter. Before that Canelo had a ton of undersized and/or shot C level guys on his resume. He's a good fighter, and probably the best in the division, but that doesn't mean a lot under the circumstances. He is a decent win for Floyd, but nothing more.

And I think Floyd would have schooled Margarito if they had fought. But the fact remains that Floyd didn't fight him, just like he didn't fight prime Cotto, just like he didn't fight Paul Williams, just like he didn't fight Pacquaio, just like he didn't fight Martinez, just like he won't fight Golovkin. Floyd doesn't get magical credit for beating guys he didn't fight just because we think he'd beat them. Again, not a question you have to ask about certain other ATGs. And as to the fighters Floyd is fighting today, he hasn't faced the best fighters of his own era when he could have. You can debate the reasons for that, but the bottom line is that the names aren't there.

volkan · Sep 16, 2013

Well it is kindda unfair to the fighters of the past that have not duck as Floyd have.

So ATG. Nah.

Drew101 · Sep 16, 2013

HitBattousai said: ↑

It's not excuses, it's fact. The best fighter on Canelo's resume is Trout, who he beat in a fight that could have gone either way and Trout is not some ridiculously elite fighter. Before that Canelo had a ton of undersized and/or shot C level guys on his resume. He's a good fighter, and probably the best in the division, but that doesn't mean a lot under the circumstances. He is a decent win for Floyd, but nothing more.

And I think Floyd would have schooled Margarito if they had fought. But the fact remains that Floyd didn't fight him, just like he didn't fight prime Cotto, just like he didn't fight Paul Williams, just like he didn't fight Pacquaio, just like he didn't fight Martinez, just like he won't fight Golovkin. Floyd doesn't get magical credit for beating guys he didn't fight just because we think he'd beat them. Again, not a question you have to ask about certain other ATGs. And as to the fighters Floyd is fighting today, he hasn't faced the best fighters of his own era when he could have. You can debate the reasons for that, but the bottom line is that the names aren't there.
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The guys that he faced were pretty good; and you can't really penalize him that much for failing to go up to middleweight when he walks around at 150 most of the time. Still, you could make a case that he's failed to face at least one or two top guys in every division that he's fought in, and that kinda hurts him in terms of his placing among the very best fighters in history.

That said, his career isn't done yet, and even it it is, it's hard for me not to place him outside of my Top 30, based on what he's done and the way he's done it.

sweetray · Sep 16, 2013

:good

Hotsauce said: ↑

don't listen to skip.........DKSAB

boxing is about who you fought and when you fight them
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bowerboy · Sep 16, 2013

HitBattousai said: ↑

He is not considered to be fighting the best because even though for example, Canelo was a champion at 154 lbs, anyone who watched his fights against Trout and Gomez could see that he wasn't developed enough to be near ready for Floyd, nor did he have a good resume before in terms of high level fighters. Throw in the catchweight stuff(which Floyd said he didn't do when it was Cotto) and the win is lessened. It's still a decent win, but basically in terms of level in the ring, Floyd is a A+ fighter that is content to beat a lot of B level competition if you look at his opposition in general.

In terms of the obvious fighters he should have fought, Pacquiao prior to 2011, Martinez prior to the Chavez Jr fight, and Cotto prior to the Margarito fight. And there's plenty of matchups where I think Floyd would win, but style-wise presented different challenges, such as Paul Williams and Margarito(who obviously called him out repeatedly). I don't have to think that Ali would have beaten Earnie Shavers, George Foreman, etc, because Ali faced all those challenges. Floyd doesn't do that. He takes on a small number of fighters that present the right risk reward ratio for his bank account and health, not his legacy. You can argue that some of the fighters in question avoided Floyd rather than the other way around(even though I think that argument is pretty weak given Floyd's history), but even now, he could try to truly push himself by doing something like moving up to 160 lbs and taking on Golovkin(who is good but no Hagler). He's proven himself to be "the man" at 154, so why not take it that step further? But that's not what Floyd's about.

And the bottom line is SRL has Duran, Hearns, Hagler, and Benitez on his resume. Ali has Liston, Frazier, and Foreman on his. Floyd, regardless of reason, has nobody on the level of any of those fighters on his ledger. That can't be ignored when ranking Floyd among the greats. So as things stand, he's a solid top 35 ATG for me, which is excellent. But if he pushed himself more, he might have been a lot higher.
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You do raise some good points and have made your case very well.

I dont agree he has any need to fight GGG as that is really "optional". I do think he would beat GGG though as powee means nothing if you cant land.

Pacquaio will always be the biggest scar on his career as he did without doubt duck him.

Definitely top 25 ATG though

the cobra · Sep 17, 2013

Floyd was an ATG like 6 years ago.

Florez · Sep 17, 2013

BingM3 said: ↑

He will be an ATG, but him not fighting certain fighters in their prime would cause a lower ranking if he keeps avoiding them....which is sad for boxing fans

A fight with a prime MOSLEY, COTTO, AM and PAC would have made him TOP DOG

He waits, and waits and waits and them let's make it happen, demands, wait....LOLatsch
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:deal

Redman · Sep 17, 2013

BingM3 said: ↑

He will be an ATG, but him not fighting certain fighters in their prime would cause a lower ranking if he keeps avoiding them....which is sad for boxing fans

A fight with a prime MOSLEY, COTTO, AM and PAC would have made him TOP DOG

He waits, and waits and waits and them let's make it happen, demands, wait....LOLatsch
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HAHAHA... take it you don't realize Mosley and Cotto both refused to fight Floyd at some point in their primes.

Just saying.

Barrera · Sep 17, 2013

Enigmadanks said: ↑

Willie Pep had a 26% KO percentage and is widely considered a top 10 P4P ATG. SKip doesn't know his boxing.

And you have to factor in that FLoyd really only started to lose his "KO power" once he started going up about 4 weight classes from where he started. If he decided to stay at LW-JWW, he'd be knocking guys out left and right from the accumulation of his accurate punches. But a guy who walks around normally at 152-155 lbs should be fighting at JWW, not WW or JMW. He does it for legacy and financial purposes as the bigger names are at WW and JMW. SO it makes sense that he doesn't have KO power since he's fighting at an unnatural weight division for himself.
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Could not have said it better myself..

And yet floyd still has haters ... 5 years after he retires he will be appreciated

Sunchild78 · Sep 18, 2013

Imperial1 said: ↑

I highly doubt anyone cares about the business side ..They should all be so lucky to even maintain that type of money ,Congrats to Floyd but what he does in the ring is what concerns me ,his all time great accomplishments in the ring does not surpass the guys mentioned bottom line .
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He is a master in the ring. Like I stated before his skills alone can compete with any of the ATGs in history. Show me something that past ATGs have done that can out shine him and maybe I'll be convinced with your opinion.

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