Is it agreed that Muhammad Ali's form improved after FOTC 1971 ?

I was there at the time, and I didn't think so either. All part of the game, I thought.

But in hindsight, I can see how Joe could have been a bit pissed prior to both events.

 

I think he might have benefitted from a couple more tune-ups, but I wouldn't argue that point too hard.

I would argue that the man was just not the same (having lost his prime) as he was three or four years earlier.

 

Yes thank God Ali never made any excuses. Angelo Dundee made them for him.

 

That is a duck. he had an abbreviated fight with Quarry that was stopped because of a cut so his stamina was not tested, and he looked unconvincing against Bonavena being shaken in the 9th, before pulling off the ko in the last rd..

 

and what ? He wasn't the same fighter he'd been in 1967. We agree on that. He looked excellent going 15 rounds with Frazier. Both fighters gained many fans and believers from that fight.
Frazier was miles better than the fighters Ali faced afterwards.

I'm not ducking your question. I simply don't have any rules on how many rounds a fighter needs after a 3.5 year layoff. You tell me.
I certainly wouldn't call Ali rusty going in with Frazier.

Frazier himself only fought just over 5 rounds in 1970, and had less than 4 minutes ring action since breaking his ankle 11 months prior the Ali fight.
You could equally make your 'ring rusty' or 'untested stamina' arguments for him.

 

Its also not just a question of number of fights or rounds....ali was 6 months removed from retirement when he fought Joe in 71.

 

The Ali of March 8, 1971 would have beaten George Foreman of Zaire, in my opinion.

 

Absolutely.

 

:good

 

Actually, it would have one or two rounds less.

3/8/71 Ali > 1974 Ali

3/8/71 Ali was his best. Still young, but tougher and stronger than mid '60s Ali when it was easy to look good against that line-up of stiffs that he defended against.

Very tough to look all graceful and such when the class of competition goes WAY up and you're busy trying to stay alive, which was the case 3/8/71.

Ali was ready 3/8/71.

The excuse making drumbeat only started once he had gotten his ass kicked.

 

Unlike the great challengers Zyggy,Stander ,and Daniels none of whom were ever ranked anywhere.