Greatest Fighter Ever ?

No, I am actually getting off my duff and doing the research in scores of newspaper archives and finding the answers for myself. Been doing it for years.

Are you?

 

How do you know? Did you check his sources? The great thing is that we no longer have to rely on an author's word anymore. We can go check the primary source reports ourselves.

 

May I ask...would you lose to a guy with one bad eye if you were a world class fighter?

I know it is Harry Greb an all but seriously, either that nearly blind thing isn't all it is cracked up to be, he is Superman, or these guys are not that good.

Has anyone put this question forward and gotten a satifactory answer? Do we really see Greb beating Robinson with one good/ok eye and one completely blind. I remember what Robinson did the Basilio's eye with one just the jab.

 

This is something I've often wondered myself! How was Greb even allowed to fight, if he was completely blind in one eye? And what did the press at the time say about this - did everybody think it was just fine to have a man risk going completely blind, if something happened to his good eye?

 

To answer the two questions posed above me: no one knew Greb was blind. And Langford and apparently Frazier did it, so it's not unheard of.

 

Greb kept his blindness a secret. Even his two managers at the time (George Engel, and Red Mason) did not know the extent of his injuries. Only his closest friends and family did. It was rumored in the press that Greb had eye trouble from fairly early on, but it wasnt an open secret. It became more well known as his career wound down. This combined with the fact that the rules and physicals for fighters competing in fights in the early 20th century were lax allowed Greb to get away with it.

I dont think there is any disputing that the men Greb beat were world class. I also dont think there is any disputing that blindness in one eye is a serious handicap. It produces a an effect called monocular vision which severely hampers ones depth perception making judgement of distance problematic. When I interviewed Dr. Margaret Goodman for the book she stated that simply having a swollen eye is bad enough and recommends that boxers occasionally train with an eye patch over one eye or the other in order to prepare for that possibility. Greb made adjustments to his style to compensate for this and continued to be successful. So in short, yes, he was THAT good.

As little red said above, there have been several fighters in history who got away with fighting blind. The better ones have even been somewhat successful. Usually though most retire at the time of or shortly after suffering the injury.

 

I just read at Cox Corner that Langford was fighting with one bad eye since 1917. Wow! These men were something else.

 

Yeah, if I remember correctly he was blinded against Fulton. By the end Langford was almost completely blind in both eyes. Some newspaper reports describe him feeling his way around the ring before he would knock a guy out. Pretty amazing.

 

How Harry Greb fought with one eye is a wonder ? But he DID it...My dad who saw Harry Greb demolish Gene Tunney at MSG in 1922, LOST his eye about 4 years later when driving a taxicab someone threw a baseball through his drivers side window shattering the glass into his eye...He lost his eye and still drove a cab for the next 35 years or so...
Each year he would have to renew his drivers license, which included an eye test...He remembered every letter in place and would "nervously" pass the eye test....Before each year eye Xam he would be a nervous wreck as he would have lost his license if it was discovered he had but one eye....It is said "tough times make monkeys eat red peppers"
and Harry Greb was as tough and resourceful a fighter who ever lived...And on a personal note so was my dad....

 

Burt. I asked once before. If you could guess what your father p4p top ten list would be, how do you think it shapes up?

 

JLP, honestly we never heard the term P4P fighter when I was growing up...
He saw Greb but just once against Gene Tunney in 1922...Raved about what he did against a bigger Tunney who lived where my dad worked in Greenwich Village...He saw and worshipped a fellow eastsider Benny Leonard, and thought so highly of the Toy Bulldog Mickey Walker...He would always tell me about the young sensational puncher Ruby Goldstein
from his neighborhood who dropped or kod everyone he fought til he ran up against the Nebraska Wildcat Ace Hudkins who after being dropped on his back ,sprung up at 9 and kod Goldstein ruining his career and exposing his glass jaw...In modern times he loved Tony Canzoneri, Lou Ambers, Joe Louis [who didn't?], and of course the great Ray Robinson, whom we both shook hands with BEFORE Robinson turned pro...But HIS and MY favorite action fighters we saw dozens of times, were Beau Jack and the pre-Tony Zale Rocky Graziano, who coming up fought like a street fighter....And my dad and I saw the prime Willie Pep shut out a terrific classy lightweight contender of the times Allie Stolz, winning every round. Jaw dropping Willie Pep was...My dad died the same year one of his idols died Jack Dempsey in 1983...cheers...

 

I agree with Robinson being #1 in my book but at the same time I find it interesting that Willie Pep only has 2 votes.


have people forgotten about the greatness of Willie Pep? The greatest pure boxer ever to lace up a pair of gloves? He could do things that Robinson couldn`t do. Better defensively, even better footwork which I dont say lightly. He could spin guys. He could frustrate world class fighters.

He was an artist and his record stand tall next to anyone`s.

 

Greb.

 

ETM, I haven't forgotten...Until he almost died in an horrific plane crash he was virtually unhittable....Why in his FIRST 3 years Willie Pep had 48 fights which was more than Mayweather has had in 15 years...If Pep had the rest that FMM had he would have fought til his fifties...Why Willie had more wives than Floyd has had fights....Well almost....

 

Do the Gibbons have better wins against Greb than Tunney then? If so that should give 'em a considerable boost in their respective rankings. Specially Tommy that took on a reasonably more seasoned Greb. The Gibbons always go up in my estimation whenever I take a better look at them.