Did Joe Louis lose to Arturo Godoy?

Maybe Godoy said that because he didn't want to upset Louis and hurt his chances for a re-match? Godoy's corner felt they won.



Its too bad the poster HOUDINI's entire flimed fight " disappeared ". If it was posted on you tube...jaws would drop.



Here's the deal. I have seen most of the filmed rounds, and Godoy simply out lands, out works, and easily out muscles Louis. That is the story. Louis lands nothing big to swing any round where he is out landed / out worked.

Godoy did give away the 15th round by clowning, getting too low to hit, and then kissing Louis to end the fight, but Louis never landed anything hard in the first match.



Louis looked confused, forgot to use an uppercut ( A crouch / crowding tactics ) seem to bother Louis. In fact Louis admitted this was a weakness of his.



If an objective person sees all the shown footage, there is NO way they would think Louis wins the majority of it.


In MSG, Louis wasn't likely to lose on the cards, especially to a foreign born fighter.

Who said they were just highlights? The majority of the fight is on flim including some full rounds you dolt! We know you never watch the flims of half the fights we talk about here, so the rest of my reply may be mute for your deaf ears. It appears you reading comprehension is awful.

Re-read what I said:


I have seen most of the filmed rounds, and Godoy simply out lands, out works, and easily out muscles Louis. That is the story. Louis lands nothing big to swing any round where he is out landed / out worked.

Godoy did give away the 15th round by clowning, getting too low to hit, and then kissing Louis to end the fight, but Louis never landed anything hard in the first match.

Louis looked confused, forgot to use an uppercut ( A crouch / crowding tactics ) seem to bother Louis. In fact Louis admitted this was a weakness of his.

If an objective person sees all the shown footage, there is NO way they would think Louis wins the majority of it.

>>>Now if you watch what's on film you can't disagree with the above. But you don't watch much.

I said the same thing, on the show footage Walcott is the better in the first fight. In fact Walcott was the better in the 2nd fight until he got cute and caught late. In addition the thunderous boo of the crowd after the cards were read and Joe Louis body language was that of the loser of the first fight.

I have said Donovan's scoring in the Farr's fight was a joke. 14-1 for Louis? Really. Watch it sometime, and if you are not lying that day you will have to agree. Either crooked or incompetent. Take your pick.

YOU ARE AN IDIOT!!!! Are you aware this is a split decision fight and one judge saw it 10-5 for Godoy? The guy who voted 10-4 for Louis must have called a round even. So there is but one round difference between him and Donovan. Anyone who sees the footage KNOWS Godoy won more than 5 rounds.


referee: Arthur Donovan 10-5 | judge: Tommy Shortell 5-10 | judge: George LeCron 10-4

World Heavyweight Title

Walcott's camp would not take the fight unless Donovan was removed. This is a fact. Do some research and you will see boxing had a lot of problems with MSG and fixed fights in the 1930's. As I told you Louis manager was mob connected ( the guys in on the fix of boxing fights ) and went to prison. There is even a filmed fight of a Jake Lamotta fix, and he tanked it.


While there is no conclusive proof either way if Louis got some unfair favors, there some smoke and bad score cards that do not justify the score cards given for Louis in his closer fights. Will you understand what I am saying this time? Likely not.

 

First of all back in the 70s you could find lots of incredible films, signed contracts, photos. ...cheap. They were not considered great collectors items as they are today.

At one time you could buy highlight reals from Castle films....all the major hwt bouts through the years all on 8 mm film. These were advertised in the back of every boxing magazine at that time.

From there I became acquainted with other collectors who were interested in selling and trading items. Some had full bouts on 16 mm film. Assume these were left over theater release films? Never was clear of their origination but they were all in great shape...high clarity. I had obscure bouts such as the Carnera Sharkey first bout...won by Sharkey and he looked magnificent in this encounter. Dempsey Tunney as well as Louis Godoy. Never did I get the impression that Godoy did enough to win the bout...lots of crowding to a ridiculous extent, lots of cuffing. Godoy did not just goof around in round 15....he did in several rounds.

Godoy stated after the bout that he thought he was entitled to a draw.

The New York Times reported the decision as "eminently fair" as its reporter gave it 10-5 to Louis, stating that other reporters had a similar result. The Springfield Union newspaper stated that AP scored the bout also 10-5 for Louis giving him the last 5 rounds.

So your observations do not jive with reality.

 

The news and courier. The day after the fight....

As for judge tommy Shortells verdict it must Be classed as one of new Yorks mightiest claims to fame as a Precinct known for it's incoriggably eccentric voting habits.

Louis fought the worst fight of his career but he won From here to Chile where Godoys relatives celebrated into the night.

So we have the nytimes, AP, the news and courier all feeling Louis won going away. The nytimes also reported that most at ringside felt the same way.

 

Here's the deal. YOU HAVE NOT NOT SEEN THE COMPLETE VERSIONS OF THE GODOY OR WALCOTT FIGHTS SO YOU ARE IN NO POSITION TO SAY WHO WON THOSE FIGHTS . The press who were ringside generally agreed with the Godoy result.


"Louis won sloppily against a bruising, mauling and rushing fighter who knew no fear or retreat." The New York Times
The only rounds in which the three agreed were the 3rd, 8th (both to Godoy) and the 14th (Louis). Lecron had it 10-4-1 in rounds for Louis. Godoy thought he was entitled to a draw but the New York Times reported the decision as "eminently fair" - its reporter giving it 10-5 to Louis, stating that other reporters had a similar result"
This blows your assertion that anyone watching it knows that Godoy won more than 5 rds totally out of the water.
You are a Louis knocker which would be acceptable if you ever produced any proof for your accusations., but you don't.


I watched the Godoy fight befoe you were born ,you illiterate fool.
I've got it on a super 8mm Black Hawk reel.
I wiped the floor with you on your accusations a full three years ago if you actually knew what you were talking about you would not keep repeating them.

Research???
Farr was managed by Ted Broadribb who had fought as Young Snowball , Farr was promoted in the UK by Sydney Hulls , prior to Farr beating Max Baer in Harringay London, Farr could not sell tickets becuase he was essentially a cagey defensive boxer who lacked a punch. With this win,[ a huge upset] Farr became marketable .
Hulls now put Farr in with the German Walter Neusel. Farr charged into Neusel and stopped him in 3 rds. A week earlier Louis had kod Braddock for the title .Hulls then matched Farr to meet Max Schmeling at the White City Stadium.Schmeling was offered£15,000 and Farr £7,500,both accepted and Broadribb signed on Farr's behalf. The fight fell through because Broadribb was offered a more lucrative deal by MIke Jacobs to have Farr challenge the new heavyweight king Louis ,Mike Jacobs offered £10,000 and Broadribb snatched his hand off. The fight was held at Yankee Stadium NOT MSG. Farr put up a spirited battle but was a clear loser.

Because he was written off before the fight as just another horizontal British Heavyweight expected to last 6 rds at the most , the fact that he went the distance has added to the folk lore of how close the fight was supposed to be. Farr won more rounds than Donovan credited him with imo, but he was NOT robbed and never claimed to be.

Farr was now estranged from his manager and having severed ties with Hulls in the UK he came under Mike Jacobs wing, Jacobs knew Farr needed a rehabilitating win before he could credibly be rematched with Louis,and Jacobs selected what he thought would be an ideal opponent . The selection was the now washed up arthritic ex champ Braddock. Braddock had retired,[ not for the first time], but was persuaded to come back to add to his pension fund. Though Farr did well early on ,Braddock realising Farr did not have the artillery to hurt him , made a late surge and took a debatable decision from Farr which upset Uncle Mike's apple cart , and put a Farr / Louis rematch on the back burner.

Jacobs kept faith with Farr and two months after losing to old Jim ,Jacobs rematched him with Max Baer , whom Farr had convincingly out pointed back in London. Baer was not in the playful mood he had been in London, he meant business and dropped Farr twice to take a U Dec from him at MSG.
Nine months later Jacobs put Farr in with Lou Nova, at MSG .It was a good scrap with Nova having Farr on the verge of a ko late in the fight,Nova took a decision win.

Jacobs gave Farr yet another chance ,this time against Dempsey protege Red Burman, Burman took a win on points and Farr had outworn his welcome at Jacobs table, he had 5 fights in the US and lost them all.

Mike Jacobs as his pilot had a vested interest in getting him rehabilitated after his loss to Louis because he wanted him to be Louis's title challenger in 38/39. The fact that Farr lost all his subsequent fights by decisions one of them a debatable one to Braddock shows plainly that your tales of fixed fights and crooked referees allied with Louis are total bull****.

Braddock upsetting Farr cost Jacobs money, there was zero mileage in Braddock who promptly re- retired after beating Farr and the Louis rematch with Farr flew out the window as a result of it.

NB All four men who beat Farr in the US after he lost his challenge to Louis were ko victims of Louis.

 

Here is the response I made to you three years ago when I made you look ,not for the first and certainly not the last time ,an illogical, bigoted numbskull.
Below.
"There is not one shred of evidence that Roxborough and Black ,Louis's managers influenced any of Louis's fights in MSG.
This is not the first time you have repeated this unsubstantiated bull****.
Louis won the title in 1937.
The Garden was controlled by Jimmy Johnston at that time.Louis defended his title 7 times in the Garden, out of a total of 25 defences.

Johnston did not lose control of the Garden until 1939, when Louis stopped his meal ticket Bob Pastor ,[at Briggs Stadium Detroit by the way].

Johnson's only real rival was Mike Jacobs who promoted at Yankee Stadium,,The Polo Grounds ,and The Garden Bowl,Long Island.
Jacobs wanted to control Madison Sq Garden,the premier site.

When Louis and Pastor met the first time, Jacobs got a contract signed by Johnston, Pastor's manager, that in the event of Pastor winning, Jacobs could contract him for his company,[The Twentieth Century Sporting Club] , Pastor was the New York State Champion ,and

Jacobs wanted to tie up the two likely contenders for the aging Braddock's title.

Jacobs finally got control of the Garden under the auspices of Eleanor Roosevelt's Milk Fund,Johnston charged the Fund a hefty fee for using the Garden. Jacobs assured them that if he had control of the Garden he would not only let them have the site for free, he would contribute a % of the takings toward the fund.Damon Runyon threw his considerable weight behind this and the deal was done.

Louis had close fights at the Garden with Godoy and Walcott, both return fights were held elsewhere.If Louis's management had intentions of influencing the judges, the return fights would have been at the Garden. "


Louis 's managers were Julian Black and John Roxborough ,Black had been a numbers runner. Roxborough was the President of The Superior Life Insurance Company . Roxborough phoned Johnston trying to get Louis a spot on a MSG bill , Louis had just beaten clever Lee Ramage. Johnston was receptive but asked Roxy if he had any white boxers, then unaware that both Roxborough and Black were men of colour,Johnston casually said of course the n****r will have to lose a couple along the way.Roxborough declined the offer and hung up.

Jacobs did NOT sign up Louis for MSG, he had no connection with it at that time. he signed him for the 20th Century Sporting Club.See below.

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Louis moved into Roxborough's home in 1934 and was treated like a son ,that same year he signed as Roxy's fighter. In contrast to Louis's team Braddock 's manager Joe Gould was mob affiliated, Max Baer's manager Ancil Hoffman had sold a % of him to the mob, Walcott's manager Felix Bochichio was mobbed up. Mauriello's manager had mob ties, so did Dorazio and several others, compared to these Louis's management was spotless.
I could go on and on but I'm not being paid to educate a fool.

If you are really interested in learning about MSG and the mob them read," Jacobs Beach" by Kevin Mitchell. then maybe you won't make such a total ass of yourself in the future.

 

In addition to all the crap you have spouted you have your timelines badly mixed up.The Lamotta/ Fox fight was in Nov 1947 , that's seventeen years after the 30's had been and gone. BTW MikeJacobs suffered a cerebral haemorrhage in 1946 , and his empire was effectively being run by his lawyer and cousin Sol Strauss.

Boxing's height of corruption was in the middle to late 40's into the 50's, NOT the 30's as you assert.

The malevolent octopus that was the IBC did not even come into being until March 1949, Louis had formally announced his retirement for the second time on the first of that month.

The trio that comprised the IBC James Norris,Arthur Wirtz ,and Truman Gibson, bought out Jacobs who since his stroke was not much more than a mute dummy,Ned Irish the MD of MSG, struck a deal with the fledgling
I B C via Truman Gibson and the IBC gave Louis $20,000 a year for his crown.

In June, under the auspices of the NBA Charles beat Walcott for the NBA version of the title,and in September a broke Louis reneged on his retirement to defend his more recognized version of the crown in Yankee Stadium.


Louis himself stated he had no doubt he had beaten Walcott in their first fight , but was so disgusted with himself and the poor fight he had put up that he tried to leave the ring before the decision was announced.

"When the fight was over I was so disgusted with myself and the way I had fought I started climbing out of the ring before the decision was announced but my corner pulled me back.
I didn't care about the decision.
I knew I won since Walcott didn't come to me.
After all, I was the champion,and he had to take the crown from me" ."Joe Louis My Life". Louis reiterated this when he appeared alongside Walcott for the TV production of "How It Was". with Don Dunphy.It can be found on You Tube.

Television now thrust itself to the fore ,building boxing up to the skies and unltimately nearly killing it.
You are nearly two decades off with your assumptions.
End of the lesson for now.

More reading for an ignoramous such as yourself should be Barney Naglers," Only The Ring Was Square", read and digest those two books, then come back and talk about research.

I look forward to all the evidence you will doubtless now produce in rebutting my posts.

 

I just watched the 30 minutes which seem to exist.

I had Louis winning. He scored with his jab. Godoy didn't score with much of anything except for a few flurries. I noticed Godoy really didn't seem too upset when the decision was announced. He seemed pleased just to have gone the distance.

 

For a guy who once claimed an IQ of 137 here, I find you wanting. Your can't even either acknowledge or debate the points I made without going off tangents on different points.


If you have the Godoy fight 25-30 min, post it here, and like I said we can score the footage here. You won't go there.:deal My point is on the shown footage, Godoy is the better.

Odd, you will tell us bad decisions on fights with no film, yet when there is film you go the other way.


I can show you 5+5 = 10, then you don't like it and dash for a passage in a book, saying yeah but 3+3=6, which of course has nothing to do with the points I made. For your case, I hope you never practiced law. Your not very convincing.

Boxing had a lot of problems in the 1930's. One year 7 big fights were DQ 's which made people grumble on fixes. I told you point blank Louis's manager was mob connected. You do not debate this. Louis managers had a cozy relationship with the match makers. You won't debate this. Donovan's score cards in some close fights are off.


Keep up the good work with your comedy. Like Mayweather's opponents would all be journeyman in the 1920's, or Povetkin is about as good as Savold!


You have no idea of what your watching. A sad and cancerous old man you shall remain.

 

.


As I told you the Godoy fight I have is in super 8mm, how could I post that?

The press that watched the Godoy Louis fight agreed with the decision and everyone here who has seen the highlights does too ,so you are out on your own with your belief that Godoy was the better man.


I never said the Braddock/ Farr fight was a bad decision, I said it was a debatable one depending on if you preferred Farr's early work to Braddock's late rally.

That was the opinion of the ringside press . I've outlined and explained the extent of Louis's management so called mob connections,they amount to Julian Black being a one time numbers runner.

There is not one shred of evidence to suggest that Louis's management influenced or attempted to influence the result of any of his fights.

There is however proven evidence that several of his title challengers were mob connected.
As I stated compared to them .Louis's management was squeeky clean.

It is a matter of record that the then MSG promoter Jimmy Johnston offered to put Louis on his bills with the proviso that he would have to lose a few, to their credit Louis's braintrust refused to do this.

MIke Jacobs who succeeded Johnston at MSG was never convicted of promoting a fixed fight neither was he ever accused of it.

Similarly Arthur Donovan whose name you have libelled without any iota of evidence was never accused of any wrong doing, in fact he was the first referee voted into the IHOF. Niow since you have produced
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL , to back up your absurd and distasteful smears , can we now put them to bed. Personally I'd like to put you to sleep.
PERMANENTLY

ps Nothing sad about my life, theatre last Thursday.[Othello], Card game Saturday, Jazz Sunday, Theatre again Friday, [Streetcar Named Desire], Jazz again this Sunday,after a grandson's birthday party, theatre again Wednesday, [Much Ado about Nothing] featuring James EarL Jones as Benedict and Vanessa Redgrave as Beatrice, you remember James Earl Jones, The Great White Hope ? Excellent film , loved the plot!:rofl

Rome next month for a week, it's my birthday.

As I told you before it's all gravy from here on in.:good
Not enough hours in the week for me.
What will you be doing meanwhile, masturbating over a Jim Jeffries photo?

See you later. MUG

 

What's all the hate concerning Joe Louis? I've never heard anyone downplay Louis by claiming without any evidence that he lost to Godoy. Can't do better than that?

 

The full fight of Louis vs Godoy I really exists? Didn't know because not even the Cayton/Jacobs library has a full version of it.

 

Mendoza badmouths both Louis and Johnson he repeats old lies ad nauseum but when challenged to produce any shred of evidence never does so.

In my time here he has never produced a primary source to back up any of his outlandish claims and smears.

He is a phobic hater.

Below referee Arthur Donovan's account of the Louis Farr result.

After collecting the judges' votes, referee Arthur Donovan announced that Louis had won the fight on points. The crowd of 50,000...amazed that Farr had not been knocked out or even knocked down, booed the decision. It seems the crowd believed that referee Arthur Donovan, Sr. had raised Farr's glove in victory. Seven years later, in his published account of the fight, Donovan spoke of the 'mistake' that may have led to this confusion. He wrote: As Tommy walked back to his corner after shaking Louis' hand, I followed him and seized his glove. 'Tommy, a wonderful perform—" I began . . . Then I dropped his hand like a red-hot coal! He had started to raise his arm. He thought I had given him the fight and the world championship! I literally ran away, shaking my head and shouting. 'No! No! No!' realising how I had raised his hopes for a few seconds only to dash them to the ground . . . That's the last time my emotions will get the better of me in a prize fight! There was much booing at the announced result, but, as I say it, it was all emotional. I gave Tommy two rounds and one even— and both his winning rounds were close.."