Foreman's zaire defeat.

Cooney had never beaten a rated heavy and was fed a diet of over the hill ex names. Witherspoon was a novice,Shavers had already been beaten by Ali, Berbick's only top win was over Tate who had been kod by Weaver 3 months previously.You need to do better.

I don't rave about Holmes opposition but I don't try and spin it into nothing special either.

 

Hi mcvey! No I'm not talking crap. I see Ali as the greatest HW in history but I don't like the free ride he gets in the 'nut-huggers' eyes in his second reign. I'm 60 yrs. old and grew up with the Blue Ribbon and Gillette Friday niters.
He continued to be great post-Foreman but IMO the bouts were orchestrated and planned given his age. At the time he fought them: Lyle, Bugner (a nothing), Shavers, etc. not to mention his many 'bums'. He had to fight Norton a 3rd time and it was a razor-thin pickem. Young would have been toast in the 60's but he had old Ali figured out regardless of the decision. He and Frazier were long past prime when they warred it out. Great fight? Yes for the reason I said. Never fought George again.
IMHO I still think he tanked the first Spinks fight knowing the young kid would take the bucks and rematch immediately! As a Patterson 'nuthugger' do you actually see Ali's performance against an overmatched Spinks in their 'rematch' as more impressive than an almost 34 yr. Floyd's effort against Jimmy Ellis in Stockholm? A close fight but I'll give Floyd props for, perhaps, being the FIRST HW to win the title for the third time.
I love Ali; I just don't like the 'free passes' that so many give him in his second career.

 

The best way to defeat Foreman is to make him lead. He's very relaxed and doesn't have to utilize as much energy when you come at him. He destroyed all of the pressure fughters, but he was not good against movers. It's quite simple. If you had a good chin and could get George to chase you, you had a good chance of winning. This is why I think guys like Holmes and Johnson beat Big George. He'd tire our and get eaten up in the latter stages of a fight

 

True. But I don't think Bugner ever beat a live contender going in against Ali either, he beat some has-beens and some European nobodies ... and Cooney was more dangerous.

True. But he proved himself a very capable fighter. I think he was better than Bugner, better than Lyle.

He was coming of his career best win, KO1 Norton.
If you want to get technical, he'd been beaten by Bob Stallings, Ron Lyle, Jerry Quarry and Ron Stander before facing Ali.

And Ron Lyle was coming off a lop-sided uncontroversial LOSS to Jimmy Young when Ali defended against him !
If it was anyone else apart from Ali, that would be duly criticised.
Instead, Lyle is lauded as a top-class challenger?

Well, neither do I.
I just dare to say that Ali's second reign was not much better.

 

This confirms my earlier comment!

 

Most of this comes across as a party political broadcast for and on behalf of the "Muhammad Ali party"...

More spin than Graeme Swann...

 

This seems much more balanced...Unforgiven, you've saved me a lot of time typing!!!

 

And saved us a lot of time reading.

 

Maybe so,but it's still accurately pointing out that Ali's resume stands up well against any other heavyweight champ's :smooch

 

Touché, McV!

 

Such crap....beating Foreman in 74 and then Frazier in 75......alone trumps anything Lewis ever did. THEN add to this Lyle, Shavers, Bugner and Norton. Guys this is only 40 years ago and you are using revisionistic history already?

 

AND he beat all of these men past his prime...don't forget that.

 

Hey mcvey! I'm not sure what your earlier comment was. I never want to get into an argument with a fellow boxing fan. We can surely agree to disagree but I'm not sure what you're talking about.
That I talk crap? That Ali led future boxers to bigger purses? I don't think that's helped boxing with all the new divisions and 4-5 champs in each division and 30-40 top 10 contenders?
Boxing is on the downslide unfortunately; now its all the ultimate cage crap bouts that charge the 60+ bucks to see.
Let me know exactly what you're referring to. I love Ali.
If you've been on board for some time you'll know that I consider Ali the greatest of all time. Summer of 67-Summer of 70 Ali would have been a ATime monster!

 

My point is Ali was not peak when he was beaten by Frazier we never saw his peak and that opinion is shared by his trainer Angelo Dundee.

I've already said Ali only beat one great fighter [Foreman],I use the same criteria for him as Frazier.

When excusing Frazier's defending against two dead beats you said they were both undefeated I pointed out they were not ,care to respond to that?:think