Joe Calzaghe v Roy Jones Jnr 2002

Assassin,

How many tabs of acid are you consuming on a daily basis?

If you don't know the facts, that includes the dates etc, then you shouldn't be arguing against somebody that does know them. I know that you never mentioned a date, but you didn't have to, because I already know it. I'm very well informed on this subject. There were no offers in 2001 or 2003. Roy was 196 pounds in 2003, looking for big money fights at HW. Joe was insignificant.

Roy said to Frank in 2002, that he MAY go down in weight, and that fighting Joe was a POSSIBILTY. Roy and his team were considering Joe, as well as other options, which were Ruiz and Tarver. On hearing this, Frank got completely carried away, and hoped to have a four man 168 tournament, with Hopkins, who'd never fought there, and Harry Simon.

I know you were, I watched it. When did Roy admit to pricing himself out?

It's completely relevant to the points we're discussing. If you know what Joe said about Roy before he fought him, then why have you been talking about Joe beating him, as though it was some kind of an achievement?

Why would Roy have made a counter offer to a 168, WBO belt holder?

They're not pointless opinions, and this is your trouble. You're living in a fantasy, and when somebody tells you how things really were, you get upset. Joe was one of the best. But the whole boxing world didn't know it at that point, and he fought in a different division. Roy would never have gone out if his way to make the fight.

I was referring to 2002.

No he didn't. Show me some actual evidence. We know he missed some guys. But show me some actual evidence to back up your claims.

It wasn't simple at all, and if you've read through my comments, you'll find that I've sympathised with the predicament that Joe was in. There were no guarantees of making it big in America. But yes, he could have gone over much sooner than he did, like many other British fighters. There was nothing really stopping him.

Bruno's circumstances were different to Joe's, but again, if Bruno, Naz and Hatton etc, hadn't have gone to America, they would never have gotten the huge fights that they had. That's a fact.

Showtime knew that he was a great fighter. But they were frustrated that they couldn't endear him to the American public, and they began to lose patience with him towards the end. They called him "No show Joe" and even Frank admitted that Joe's reluctance to fight in America cost him the opportunity to be popular over there. Joe never became anything more than a possibility to fight Roy back then. Fighters do drop their titles to move up in weight and further their careers. It was the only choice that Joe ever had of getting Roy. If he'd dropped the WBO and moved up to 175, he may have got the fight with Roy, and he may not have. There was certainly no guarantee. But, he'd have had a chance. But staying in Britain at 168, defending a belt that nobody was bothered about, was NEVER EVER going to get him a big money fight, against the World's best fighter, who fought in a different weight class. That was a fact! That's what happened. He stayed and defended the belt against mainly subpar opposition, and he never got to fight Roy.

Every fighter has a different set of circumstances surrounding them. Roy was the best fighter in the World, and that point in time, Joe had beaten a faded Eubank on short notice, he'd struggled with Reid, and he'd put in lacklustre performances in against Starie and Thornberry. He'd looked good against Sheika, Woodhall, Brewer and Veit etc, but he wasn't classed as an elite fighter back then, even though he was. He didn't get his due, until he'd beaten Lacy in 2006. Us Brits knew that he was special. But the rest of the boxing World didn't. This is what's not getting through to you. Joe wasn't a popular, world class fighter back then.

Why would they have found a bit extra? HBO's audience wouldn't really have known who Joe was. Again, why would Roy have tried to make the fight?

You've got no perspective.

Nothing? Nearly all of my posts contain factual information.

You're that desperate to try and hype Joe and to protect his name, you've even convinced yourself that a direct quote was taken out of context. Joe said he wasn't chasing Roy, but you're trying to tell us all that he was in fact chasing him.

I'm speechless.

 

Assasin,

You've used some very poor examples here, to try and emphasise your point.

Yes of course there was a demand/big interest in the Ruiz fight. Roy had finally signed to fight a HW.

I would say that people looked forward to seeing Manny fight MAB in 2003. He'd got a major belt, and it made for an exciting fight.

Yes there was a demand to see Roy vs Tarver. That was a grudge fight, and people wanted to see how Roy could perform after the weight loss.

There was always a demand to see the HW champ fight.

I wouldn't have said that there was a demand for Martinez and Murray.

Boxing is a business. It would have been a big fight for Joe and his fans, who knew how good he was. But it wouldn't have been a big fight for Roy, HBO, and the American public.

How would it have sold, when for the millionth time, Joe wasn't known over there? Do you think that HBO's audience, knew a lot about a European, 168, WBO champ? You're kidding yourself.

He hadn't fought Mitchell at that point. They'd seen about half a dozen fights, and two of them had bombed.

WTF are you talking about??

You need to see a psychiatrist.

I said, why don't YOU ask the opinion of an American fan/fans on here, such as Mind Reader, to gauge how popular Joe was in the early 00's?

I don't need to ask the question, because I already know the answer.

Joe wasn't very popular, and he wasn't respected as an elite fighter back in the early 00's.

This is common knowledge to any knowledgeable fight fan.

But again, go and ask their opinions, on how he was perceived at the time.

We've got our wires crossed. But it doesn't matter. I was talking about Roy. You were talking about the guys he dodged, so I was asking who?

Well he wasn't really in a position then was he? Again, Floyd moved up to 147 shortly after, and Ricky didn't become popular in America, until he'd fought there a few times.

It wasn't a lot.

He fought Hopkins, Toney, Hill, Tarver, Johnson, Ruiz, Joe, and has recently fought a top CW, way past his best, in his early 40's.

So again, you're wrong.

What's funny? Kerry Davis sat down with Roy's team and he tried extremely hard to deliver that fight for HBO.

If HBO were so unhappy, then how did Roy end up fighting over 25 times for them?

I was referring to 2004, when Joe said he wanted to move up to 175, only to then change his mind.

Instead of looking to fight the likes of Tarver, he fought Kabary Salem, and a rematch against a guy who he'd already beaten in a single round, in Mario Veit.

Floyd and Manny fights? Obviously Ricky didn't think so.

It may not have been through any fault of Frank's, but again, Ricky wasn't happy to re-sign, and he ended up getting the two biggest fights out there.

Yes, it wasn't down to Joe at all, and it's a shame the fight was never made. But it wasn't as simple as Bernard ducking Joe. It was part of a three fight deal, and Bernard had got an issue with Don King.

 

It's all relevant to this debate.

You're wondering why Roy never made any counter offers, but are ignoring the fact that Joe was rematching Veit when he was 33, when he'd already beaten him in a single round, three years previously.

What does that say to you?

 

Two enquiries, and one offer in 2002.

I made a mistake in my previous post, Frank's other offer, was in 2006, not 2007.

Of course you think that the rest of the post is meaningless, because it shows Joe in a bad light, and you don't want to discuss it.

Again, in 2007, Joe had said in his autobiography, that fighting Roy would be pointless, because he was no longer great, after suffering back to back knockout defeats to Tarver and Johnson in 2004.

So why, when Roy was on a THREE FIGHT LOSING STREAK, did Frank try and make the fight in 2006?

I'd love to hear your answer.

 

:rofl

Trust me 46, Rico has pwned no one... Notice he hasn't said anything since post 361?:deal

 

Yeah, f*ck my links, because they'll make you look stupid.

How can you say you don't care about them, and then go on to say that the fights could have been made EASILY?? atsch

If you actually did some research, you'd see that a lot of those fights weren't at all easy to make.

There's valid reasons why the DM, Eubank, Benn, Liles, Nunn and Hopkins II fights weren't made.

You are showing complete ignorance, and are acting like a mardy little child.

If you think those fights were easy to make, then show us some evidence. :good

 

I wonder why you're bored?

You've made all of these ridiculous comments, and because they've been shot down, you're going to run away?

Comeback and fight your corner.

Take a leaf out of Bailey's book.

 

Show me where I've ever said that DM wasn't unfairly stripped?

Show me where I've ever said that Roy getting the WBC back, wasn't outrageous?

But no, Roy's belts weren't worthless.

He beat two good fighters in Johnson and Del Valle to unify, he beat common opponents of DM's with ease, and DM wasn't interested in fighting Roy in America, to get them back, when he had the opportunity.

So the circumstances were different.


But in your previous post, you said that Roy's WBA belt was nothing more than a trinket, and Lewis was 'The Man'.

So why did you want Roy to fight for Byrd's IBF?

Wasn't that also a trinket?


Also, why did you want Roy to fight Sanders for the WBO belt? when:

1. He didn't have it, when Roy had signed to fight Ruiz.

2. The WBO belt wasn't respected back then, or even ranked by the likes of The Ring magazine.


??


Once again, your hatred has inadvertently tied you up.

 

You seriously think that he couldn't have?

Do us a breakdown. :good

 

No matter what path Roy took or who he fought would never be enough for Rico.. He would find something to hate on.. Passionate hatred he has for this man.

 

Bailey,

It never became anything more than a possibility.

But they obviously had a degree of interest. If Joe had've impressed the American fans and media, or fought up at 175, and gotten a mandatory shot, then we could have seen it.

Again, dropping his belt and going for it, was the only realistic chance he had of getting the fight.

Eubank didn't want to fight Roy at 168.

Benn was with King, and King wanted future options. Roy's handlers also didn't want to deal with him.

Collins was dismissed to go up to 175,

Nunn was dismissed to fight at HW.

Joe was obviously a consideration. His circumstances were different to the aforementioned fighters.

Because again, it was never anything more than a possibility, as proven in the end.

 

How did he do a great job of beating Roy, after what he'd said prior to the fight?

 

He must be confused.

Rico has taken a great hammering.

 

It's funny.

I can't believe that Assassin has ran away.

Although it's understandable.

 

There was no demand for Jones-Calzaghe when Jones was prime.... I was casual at this time and followed Roy, Lennox, Oscar and Mosley.. I had no idea who Joe was, and would have expected Roy to destroy him.. You can't blame Roy for not dropping weight to fight him for the same purse as he got for his mandos.:rofl

I have no doubt that Roy knew of Joe, and considered him an option.. But in the end realized it was bad business.. there were 3 or 4 fights he considered over getting a fight with Joe.

I am not speaking biased either.. It is just the way it is in this sport.