Does anyone believe Fraziers greatness took a hit with his losses to Foreman?

Just because Greb was able to do it doesn't make it easy, or change the fact that Frazier was justified somehow to try to hold on to the title after what he's been through in and after FOTC. There have been plenty of champions who defended at some point against one or many unranked fighters, Ali included. It wasn't the first case and it wasn't the last. The fact that Frazier did so over the course of two years can be justified, like dozens of people before me told you. There's more to it than simply looking at some stats or facts, either you're ignorant enough cause it involves Frazier or you're simply idiotic for not seeing it.

 

I agree with the first part.
Though Frazier was a great fighter for about 3 years not just one night. From about `68 through that fight in`71 he was a great heavyweight. Ofcourse Ali was his most famous win and his toughest test.

 

It is three year run where he cleaned out. It is like Marciano or Tyson. They were great for about three years too.

Mcvey keeps banging on about the title being on hold fir two years but it is less than a half truth.

First of all in 1971 frazier fights #1 ALi. In 1973 Frazier fights #1 Foreman. That only leaves 1972.

So let's look at 1972. #1 contender is still Ali. And Frazier also beat all the name guys who are still rated apart from Terrell and Patterson. Who the hell wants to see Frazier fight two has beens that ALi already beat as champion years earlier?

If you asked the man on the street circa 1972 who the best heavyweights were he would say Frazier then Ali then Ellis, quarry and Bonavena. Frazier beat all those dudes.

At anyone time there are about 3 New guys rated who are not that established who nobody is screaming about. Often people will ask what they even did to get in the ratings. In 1972, because they were less well known that would apply to Ken Norton, Ron lyle and Jose Roman. George Foreman was bottom feeding since landing into the ratings with his win over Chuvalo. He was overshadowed by Ali, Ellis and quarry at that time. If Forman was put on hold for taking guys like Terry sorrell nobody minded in 1972 because of what the champ did in 1971.

 

That`s true. The list of fighters from the 60s that McVey posted that would have determined Frazier`s greatness was a joke.

Also we must remember that fighters with Joe Frazier`s style don`t usually have longevity. They have a shorter shelf life. Whether its a Maciano, Tyson, Armstrong or Dempsey they don`t have primes that last more than 3 or 4 years.

That doesn`t mean they were not great fighters. Most of us realize Ali was greater but Joe was great in his own right.

 

Listen to me for the last time please.NO champion is justified for sitting on his title defending against nobodies for two years, not Frazier or Dempsey,[whom I love] nobody! Ali defended against a few fringe conetenders, but they were sandwiched between the very best opponents available.

LOOK AT HIS RECORD.

Dozens of people haven't told me anything I've had a couple of guys that disagree with me, that is fine.

What they cannot do is say my posts are untruthful or not factual.
YOU ARE IN DENIAL.

I am neither ignorant nor idiotic.
I boxed for nearly two decades ,and have followed boxing since 1958.
I saw the rise of Ali, and Frazier after him .
I was buying films from Castle and Blackhawk and having them sent over from the US 40+ years ago I've read boxing books voraciously since I was a kid and suscribed to The Ring, Boxing News ,[the oldest weekly mag going] and the now non -existant Ko, BI,Boxing World etc.


There is no point in continuing this .:hi:

 

Ali was only a great fighter for one night.:nut

Yes in February of `64 he was great against Sonny Liston but remember

he didn`t fight
Al Jones {thee Al Jones} probably because Jones could punch.

Eddie Machen

Doug Jones {never gave him a rematch after he won the title} a fight that was hotly disputed.

he also ducked Manuel Ramos.

Ali= one night wonder ladies and gentlemen.:hi:

 

Lets look at your statement.Frazier won a version of the NY state title when he beat unranked Buster Mathis in 11 rds.RIGHT OR WRONG?

Yancey Durham refused to let Frazier enter the WBA tournament held to determime a successor to ALi who had been stripped of his title .
RIGHT OR WRONG?

Frazier was a great fighter for three years from 68 to 71?

1968

Frazier had 3 fights .
The 1st against the unranked Mathis.
The 2nd against the god awful Manuel Ramos who quit.
Ramos got his credibility by beating Ernie Terrell who in his last two fights had been unanimously thrashed by Ali and convincingly outpointed by Thad Spencer in the WBA tournament.
Terrell had gone from the number 1 contender to no 10 in a year ,after being painfully humiliated by Ali.Essentially he was damaged goods.
He is the only ranked contender the hyped Ramos ever beat.

The 3rd fight was a respectable points win over ranked Bonavena.
Three fights, only one over a rated fighter that is 1968 for Frazier.

1969.
Two fights.

A one round blow out in defence of his spurious NYASC title against unranked and decidedly overmatched Dave Zyglewicz.

An impressive win on a cut eye tko over rated Jerry Quarry.

1970.
Two fights.
Very good win over Jimmy Ellis to add the WBA& WBC titles to his NYASC title.

A win over unranked LHVY Champ Bob Foster who never beat a good heavyweight.

1971.
1 fight against the comebacking Ali. Frazier fought the fight of his career and on this night achieved greatness.

1972.
2 fights .
Defences of his title
No 1.

Against the unranked and not even average Terry Daniels who had been stopped in 2 rds by the very mediocre Casey, who sported the following resume 3-13-2 .

Ok ,give Frazier a break, a tough fight against Ali, let him have a gimmee?
Could he not have found some one with some kind of credibility ,it was for the title after all?
No 2.
Another defence against another unranked and thoroughly unworthy opponent.
Ron Stander whose own Wife described his challenge as akin to putting a Volkswagon in the Indy 500.
Stander had lost to 8-11-1 Rico Brooks not long before he challenged Frazier.

IS THIS THE STUFF OF GREATNESS?
IF YOUR ANSWER IS YES THEN I SUBMIT WE HAVE DIFFERENT IDEAS ABOUT THE DEFINITION OF THE WORD.
Frazier ball-lickers, kindly note that on the thread about the great fighters Ali beat, I have only included ONE.

 

They'd sooner see Frazier fight two never wasses?

You are really funny.

 

Your pathetic attempt at sarcasm is a dismal failure ,simply because for humour to be effective it must have a basis in truth.
1.Ali fought the largest collection of heavy duty punchers the heayweight division has ever seen.
2. Ramos only ever beat one ranked fighter, the diminished Terrell who had lost his last two fights , going from no1 contneder to number 10 ,after being thoroughly outclassed and humiliated by Ali.
3.Doug Jones lost his chance of a rematch when he was beaten by Billy Daniels, and then George Chuvalo

.Ali kod Daniels in 7 rds in his 14th fight and twice beat the snot out of Chuvalo.

In 1964 ,when Ali won the title,[ from Machens conqueror Liston] Machen lost to Patterson and then in 65 to Terrell ,both Ali victims. In 66 Machen lst to Mildenberger another Aali victim.
You're not very good at this are you?

 

If Frazier was only great for one night, how many nights was Ali great for ?
How many times was Dempsey great ?
Louis ? Marciano ? Holmes ? Tyson ? Holyfield ?

Were these guys great for more than one night ? Two nights, maybe ? Three ? Four ?
Maybe some were never great at all.

 

Ali was great when at 32 ,he beat a man who was perceived as the boxing version of King Kong. He was great when as a young challenger he took on the Big Ugly Bear who was a lopsided favourite to demolish him.
He was great when he dredged the last bit of energy out of his past prime body to mount a rally and beat Norton. If you think I'm wrong ,tell me in what other fights Frazier showed greatness?