Joe Calzaghe v Roy Jones Jnr 2002

Ha!

Rico's took a real beating on here. It's funny watching him tying himself up.

He's a passionate hater.

He rates Joe's split against a 43 year old Hopkins, but doesn't rate Roy's win against Ruiz. Roy only won that fight because of Jay Nady.

He thinks the WBA was a trinket, but didn't seem to have a problem with Joe holding the WBO for ten years.

What would he be saying if Roy had held the WBO for ten years?

I like him though, he's an entertainer.

 

Assassin,

You're living in a fantasy. It's no coincidence that when your posts were pulled to pieces, you went missing, and told Mind Reader that you were bored.

Yes, and we know that the circumstances were down to Joe himself. I don't make excuses for Roy. I've said that he dismissed fighters, but I gave reasons as to why. Everything I've said about certain fights not coming off, can be backed up with cold hard facts.

It's not the other way around, when the guy holding it, is relatively unknown on the World stage. The WBO belt wasn't respected in the 90's, and it wasn't ranked by the likes of The Ring Magazine. So an unknown guy that defended it for years, was never likely to get himself a big money fight against the World's best fighter.

I said no such thing you fruitcake! I said "Why don't you ask the American fans on here, to share their opinion, on how popular Joe was?" That's the question I put to you. I know for a fact that he wasn't popular in the U.S. Why do you think he was fighting Peter Manfredo from a TV programme, when he was 34/35 as a PR exercise? Frank MADE him take that joke of a fight, to build up his U.S. profile. The reason it needed building up, is because he never went to the U.S. earlier in his career.

Not at all, but I'm always going to set you straight, when you get carried away with your fantasies. I've sympathised with the predicament that Joe found himself in. I've said that on two occasions, and I've been completely objective.

Roy HAD big fights. Joe never put himself in a position to fight the likes of Roy.

Joe HAD to travel to get big fights. Roy's circumstances were different. He was based in America, he fought on HBO, and he was regarded as the best fighter on the planet. He had power back then, and apart from DM, all Roy's competition were based in America. He didn't need to travel.

Joe had NO CHANCE of fighting Roy at his peak, WITHOUT DROPPING HIS BELT AND GOING TO AMERICA. History has shown that Roy and HBO considered him a few times, but were never interested enough to actually make the fight. Why would they have been?

There is no excuse for Roy.

The World's best fighter, who holds all of the major belts, does not have to travel to Germany. You go to the champ, he doesn't come to you. The onus was on DM to go to America, or find somewhere neutral. There's no way Roy should had to have gone to Germany. He saw what DM did to Roch, when he got him DQ'd, and Germany was notorious for bad decisions. In 2001, Roy said "I don't think that a knockout would be enough over there!"

Again, you're living in a fantasy, trying to rearrange direct quotes to show Joe in a better light.

You're just like Bailey and Rico. When you hear something that you don't know, it must be just my opinion, right?

Wrong!

Go back and pull any of my posts, and strip them down. Strip them down, and I'll prove to you by using links etc, that what I've wrote is not merely an opinion. Nearly all of my posts contain factual information.

Certain guys can depending on their circumstances. But Joe COULDN'T, and DIDN'T back in the early 00's.

He defended a lightly regarded title for TEN YEARS, and was happy to keep re-signing contracts with Frank. Poor Joe, he was desperate to fight the best, but they all avoided him didn't they? Ha! Pathetic!

 

Assassin,

Part 2.

Roy did chose to not fight certain fighters, but that's because he tried to fight bigger fights. He dismissed Collins, to fight at 175. He dismissed Nunn, to fight at HW. He dismissed Byrd and Sanders to try and fight Tyson. He dismissed Joe to fight Ruiz. Fights with DM, Hopkins 2, Benn and Liles etc, didn't happen for various reasons that can be backed up with links. I'll show you proof why they didn't happen, without giving my opinion at all. But you're not going to take any of it onboard. You don't seem to realise, that everybody, whether in life or in a boxing ring, each has a different set of circumstances surrounding them.

Ha! Only to get under the skin of certain posters. I bait people, just like everybody else does. But you can go and look at posts between me and Herol and Des, and you can see that I've been objective, and I haven't hated.

Give me some examples.

John Ruiz wasn't a cherry pick. Because Evander was Roy's initial target, and there's 7-8 links on another thread, that can be bumped at any time, that prove that Roy was looking to fight at HW again after Ruiz. So you've no idea what you're talking about.

He wanted a huge pay day. Lennox wanted to fight Roy, before he struggled with Vitali. Afterwards, Lewis met Roy, and Murad Muhammad met with Lewis's team. Then shortly afterwards, Lewis told Roy that he didn't think he was going to fight again. He then officially retired early in 2004, stating that he no longer had the motivation or the hunger. Everything above is FACTual.

WHERE exactly have I said that it was in anyway equal? Why don't you show me where I've said such a thing.

No. I've said that the Ottke camp didn't seem to want the fight, and at that point, Joe should have moved up to 175.

Ha! SO WHAT THE **** WAS JOE FROM 1997-2007 THEN???

He won the vacant WBO after beating Eubank, and then he clung onto it, like a drowning man at sea clinging onto a life raft.

He then unified against Kessler, who wasn't elite, and who'd never beaten an elite fighter.

I don't **** on Joe for the Eubank fight. I **** on him, as you call it, because he defended the title for TEN YEARS!

FOR WHAT???

Dropped his belts, to go down in weight to face Joe? Get real! Again, Joe was a nobody back then. Nobody is arguing that he wasn't better than Gonzalez, but Gonzalez was a mandatory at 175. What exactly would Roy have gained by dropping his belts and going down to 168? He wouldn't have got big money. He wouldn't have given a f**k about Joe's belt. So why would he have done such a thing?

Do you know what Roy did, after he'd beaten Gonzalez? He held talks with Evander Holyfield just prior to his final fight against Ruiz. He held talks about a potential fight early in 2002. But he pulled out of negotiations after Evander had failed to win back the WBA from Ruiz. Which again is why Ruiz wasn't a cherry pick. Roy then decided to remain at LHW for a little while longer, to weigh up his options. When a Hopkins rematch couldn't be made, he made his last mandatory defence at LHW against Woods, and then went after Ruiz. So if Evander had've beaten Ruiz late in 2001, we would probably have seen Roy fight Evander in 2002, instead of the Kelly and the Woods fights. In case you were wondering, no this isn't just my opinion.

Again, why should the World's best fighter, that held all of the belts, have had to travel to Germany?

Ha!

You're the guy, who has changed this quote from below:


"I'm not chasing Roy Jones. Be honest, Roy's a good fighter and I don't want tough fights."


INTO


"I want to fight you Roy, just stop messing me around and lets fight."


Ha! You need psychiatric help!

Come and join us all in the real World.

The World where Clinton Woods managed to get in to the ring with a near peak version of Roy, and had three fights with Glen Johnson, and one against Antonio Tarver. He could get those five fights, but Joe couldn't, because everyone was scared etc.

What fights did Roy miss, that would have been bigger challengers than Toney, Ruiz, and Tarver? (given the circumstances)

Roy HAD BIG FIGHTS!

We know what the valid reasons were as to why Joe never got a big money fight against Roy.

There was no demand to see the fight, and in the end, Roy and HBO weren't interested, and went with better options.

The reason they did that, is because Joe was an unknown 168, WBO belt holder.

You said it.

 

I've only just started.

Someone has to try and educate these fools.

 

Rico's been officially crushed.

 

Bailey,

WTF are you talking about?

I said that Joe defending the WBO belt in Britain, in a different weight class, was never going to get him a big money fight against Roy. I WAS RIGHT! BECAUSE IN THE END, IT NEVER HAPPENED.

How on earth, can they only be my opinions?

Let's have a look at what you've highlighted.

We'll breakdown your three examples that you picked up on.


1.

How is that ONLY an opinion? Roy WASN'T INTERESTED IN 2001, because he fought Gonzalez at 175, while his team tried to make the DM fight. He then spoke to Holyfield at the end of the year. In 2002, he ended up fighting Ruiz instead of Joe.

The fight against Joe NEVER HAPPENED, BECAUSE IN THE END, ROY AND HBO WEREN'T INTERESTED.

That is not an opinion, IT'S A FACT!



2.

Yes, they did consider it. We know that from your links. But again, in the end, they WEREN'T INTERESTED.

That isn't my opinion, it's a FACT.



3.

Yes, and again, that's what they had. They had brief discussions, and said that Roy MAY drop down to 168. But again, in the end they weren't interested.

Once again, that isn't my opinion, that's a FACT!

Roy held the IBF. He couldn't unify with King's fighters, so he couldn't try and obtain the WBA and the WBC belts from Benn and Liles. At that point he started to look towards moving up to 175. If he couldn't unify the WBA and the WBC belts, then why on earth would he have been bothered about Collin's WBO belt? If he'd have taken the Collins fight, and he'd have beaten him and won the belt, then what? The WBO wasn't respected back then, and winning that wouldn't have changed the circumstances regarding Don King and the Levin's. So he moved up to 175.

Michael Nunn beat Ruddy Nix in Jan 1997, and was then made the number one challenger to the winner of the Jones-Griffin fight, in March 97, for the WBC belt.

After Roy was DQ'd, he lost the belt, and then the rematch was made in August of 97. Roy had spoke to Holyfield prior to the rematch, but Holyfield wasn't interested in a HW fight. Roy then beat Griffin, and again mentioned Holyfield afterwards. Michael Nunn's promoter, Dan Goosen, then won purse bids for the fight in October of 97, but Roy vacated the belt, to fight Buster Douglas early in 98.

We've all seen the links a thousand times. General Zod made a full thread regarding it. According to Roy and Greg Fritz, Don King wanted future options on Roy, and wouldn't sign a one fight deal. Also, The Levin's who handled Roy back then, didn't want to turn Roy over to King, for Benn and Liles fights. King hated Stanley Levin. This has been done to death, but it never sinks in. Liles and Benn fights, were extremely hard, if not impossible to make. Roy then took a few mandatories, and then made the decision to go up to 175, late in 96.

You can have an exact timeline of what happened, all of which can be backed up by links, that I'm sure everybody is tired of reading.



DM's advisor, Klaus Peter Kohl, made an offer to Roy and his team, for Roy to fight DM in Germany.


Roy turned it down.


DM then made another offer to Roy and his team.


Roy again turned it down. He made it clear that he didn't want to go to Germany. He said "I don't think a knockout would be enough over there." He was regarded as the best fighter in the World, he had all of the major belts, and he thought that the onus was on DM to go to him.


Kohl then said that if Roy wasn't prepared to go to Germany, Roy's team and HBO had to make them a very good offer to fight in America.


Kerry Davis of HBO then tried to arrange meetings with Kohl, to discuss a potential fight. But Kohl was never available to sit down with Davis and Brad Jacobs, and he wasn't available even via the phone.


Davis said that they couldn't even get the ball rolling with an opening offer.


Kohl then admitted to ignoring Davis's attempts to make contact, because he was angry that Roy had turned down his earlier offers to fight in Germany. It was playground antics.


Then Davis came up with the idea, of proposing a double header, where Roy and DM would fight on the same card, to introduce DM to the American public, and to hype the fight even more.


Davis and Jacobs thought that it was a great idea, and because they couldn't get hold of Kohl via the phone, they sent a fax to his office.


On receiving the fax, Kohl then immediately refused the idea, stating that DM wasn't an undercard fighter.


Kohl made it sound as though they had been insulted.


After that, negotiations broke down completely, and Roy considered a move up to HW.



That's the timeline.

It doesn't matter what DM said in a magazine. He said he was willing to go to America. But when Davis proposed the double header, which was a great idea, it was instantly dismissed.

DM was too proud to appear on a double header with Roy, even though Roy was the best fighter on the planet, the unified champ, and they would have been a huge fight afterwards.

DM and Kohl turned it down, and then DM was happy to fight the likes of Lakatos, Hall and De Grandis, before losing to Julio Gonzalez in 2003.

Why do you have such a hard time allowing for circumstances?

Every fighter has a different set of circumstances surrounding them.

For a fight to happen, both sets of fighters and both promoters have to happy, as well as the network.

Again, Roy's handlers didn't want to deal with King.

Collins brought nothing to the table, and was dismissed for a new challenge at a higher weight.

Nunn was dismissed, to try and fight Holyfield, and then later Douglas.

I've just discussed the DM saga.


Now you keep showing me links, where Joe had a foot in the door, and he was considered as an opponent.

That means that Roy and HBO were partially interested. There was no issue with two promoters, like the Levin's and King, and Roy didn't dismiss Joe instantly like he'd done with other fighters.

But in the end, they decided to go down another road.

But again, if Joe had've moved up to 175, fought in America, and either moved his way into a mandatory position, or got people interested, then there could have been a demand for the fight, and we might have seen it.

He was nothing more than a consideration!

He wasn't known enough to make the fight in the end.

There was no public demand for the fight.

Did they consider him? Yes.

Were they happy to go through with the fight afterwards?

NO THEY WEREN'T!

Are you taking the ****?

Show you where HBO have said they weren't interested??

THEY DIDN'T MAKE THE FIGHT!!!

They didn't make it in 2001, and they didn't make it in 2002.


So in the end, Roy and HBO obviously weren't INTERESTED!

I don't try to pass anything of as fact, and EVERYTHING that I write can be backed up.


Who are these other posters?


Assassin? - A guy who thinks that Joe saying how he wasn't chasing Roy, really meant, that he was in fact chasing him, and he just wanted Roy to stop messing him around. Ha! Medication time!



Rico? - A passionate hater, who doesn't give a former 154 fighter, ANY credit for winning a version of the HW title at 34, after 50 fights, and who even blames referee Jay Nady for the outcome of the fight. Ha!


Hilarious!



These guys have got zero credibility on here.



I can school them all day, any day.

 

Bailey,

Well why don't you and Rico, go and dissect my posts and pull up the exact parts, where you think that the information isn't factual, and it's just my opinion?

I'll stand both of you on your heads, and shake the change out of your pockets.

This right here, is a perfect example to use, of how you and Rico just completely ignore everything that I write, and then try to claim that it's either nonsense, or just my opinion.

Why do you need an exact quote of Roy saying that, when you have the following information, that can all be backed up with links etc:



Roy's Father said that he hardly trained for the fight.


His long time trainer Alton Merkerson said that he couldn't get Roy motivated.


Thomas Hauser, a well respected boxing writer, said that Roy hadn't trained properly.


Antonio Tarver said that Roy came back far too early.


Roy himself said that the ringside doctor for the Johnson fight, said that he was completely dehydrated, because he'd had such a hard time making the weight.



So how can any of the above statements be waffle???


If he was bothered about Johnson's titles, then why wasn't he training properly, and why wasn't he motivated?


The answer, is because he was just going through the motions. He signed for the fight, less than two months after a devastating knockout, the first real loss of his career.


It's common knowledge that he took the Johnson fight far too early, and he took it to try and eradicate the loss to Tarver.


But I can't say that I'm surprised that you and Rico can't see this.

Yes, Roy was in a better frame of mind for the fight with Joe. It was over four years after his fight with Glen, and he was extremely motivated, and he'd had a great camp. But the problem was, he was approaching 40, and he hadn't won at elite level for five years.

 

wow Bailey has faileyed.

Assassin could change his name top asskickedin

Rico has been Dredded.

 

You should look at the full story again. Echoles was due to fight Calzaghe on the Tyson undercard. Calzaghe ended up having to fight a short notice opponent in McIntyre when that fight fell through. Calzaghe turned up

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/1529201.stm

 

As Bailey said earlier there isn't a point in arguing with Loudon anymore he just says his opinion of what he thinks or wanted to happen.

He has no answers for Jones own actions. The guy tried to tell us Roy wasn't interested in Johnson's trinket IBF belt for christ sakes! :rofl Do you think for one second Glass Jaw Roy would have taken that fight if Johnson had no belt? :rofl

Or that Roy 'talked' with someone and they wouldn't fight him he leaves out the part of Roy asking for 50 million dollars :rofl

Or Roy fighting his Mandatory his whole career yet decides when he gets to heavyweight that he isn't interested in doing that and but that he was planning to stay at the weight and that the Ruiz fight wasn't a one time handpicked fight. :rofl

His actions PROVED it was yet fan boy Loudon just can't handle that and tells us Roy was ready and willing but it was everyone's fault but his why fights couldn't be made.

 

think you are trying to make more than someone just wanting to be paid well, but if we are doing everything by the literal

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/wales/1305307.stm

the above didnt happen now did it?How likely would Calzaghe have been to have got the fight with those considerations?

 

RJJ circa 2002 would have destroyed any version of Calzaghe. Calzaghe was a good fighter but beating Jones when he did proved nothing. That was not the real RJJ he fought....just like Lennox Lewis trying to get credit for knocking out Mike Tyson as if it added to the legitimacy of his legacy. I'm really sick of all the bitches on ESB calling Roy a steroid cheat. In his prime, the guy was one of the most dominant fighters to ever lace 'em up and Calzaghe would have got wrecked had the fought prime for prime.

 

Are you insecure HMB?

Did Ward move up to face Cleverly?
If you are making fight by fight comparisons its not wise as old end of career, last fight at SMW Calzaghe beat prime undefeated Kessler, young Ward (over a decade younger than Calzaghe) beat rusty, past best unwell Kessler after Calzaghe had shown the way, but still Calzaghe beat Bika more convincingly than Ward did

Said Dino, Said.
Groves has defeated undefeated Olympic gold medallists, he has experience in doing so.

Read on

Why laugh when you can read the link

Read the link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/wales/1305307.stm

Seems Jones team considered it
Read the link. Seems you have all been owned again