Foreman's zaire defeat.

Pre-Ali Foreman, who's brain was fried after that, would have had Lyle out inside of two. It amazes me that so many regard the Lyle fight as George's weakness. IMO even with all George's demons at the time, Lyle could have put him down ANOTHER time and Foreman would have Still smooshed him. No one knocks George out...Zaire? We've talked this before. Is Ali better AT than Foreman? Absolutely, but in the second reign, things were put in place to give Ali every advantage and opportunity to win. Once again, the fight should have been in the Astrodome. Geez o pete I'm 60 yrs. old and have followed the greatest sport since 58 when dad introduced me to Floyd Patterson. Ali the greatest? YES!!! 68-69-70? An unbeatable monster. Great second career but...with reservation. Can't anyone see that?

 

Jowcol....let me give you a bit of wisdom.......conspiracy theories are for the ignorant.

There was no master plan to keep Ali champion in the 70's. A ko ends all controversy and Ali knocked out for a 10 count George Foreman in 1974. Ali was the only man ever to stop Foreman...ever. He also stopped Lyle and no 1 contender Frazier. By beating Frazier in that incredible fight Ali showed all historians that he was a tough FIGHTER with will to win as good as any past champion and a chin to match. He also beat Shavers decisively as well as Bugner. Your bone of contention is Norton fight three but I have shown that it was a close bout. Typically and historically close fights go to the champion.

 

Very sensible post. I'll always maintain,though,that Ali was lucky in getting the decision in the third Norton bout. And I'm a big Ali fan.

 

Looking at it objectively, Foreman just wasn't experienced or skilled enough to face Muhammad Ali.
People were suddenly in awe of Foreman based on just 1 or 2 results.

Foreman's wins over Frazier and Norton made his reputation but didn't do anything for his ability to box and fight, they probably made him a lesser fighter in the long-run because he started to believe he'd crush anyone in 2 round.

Perhaps I've been over-rating George Foreman altogether.

 

You keep repeating this, please elaborate.

 

No, A boxer beat a puncher, the most natural pick in boxing. Saddler was a puncher too, he won't teach a puncher how to box.

 

Hey mcvey! Yes, I keep repeating this but I also keep repeating that I think Ali is the greatest HW of all-time!
He was better than Foreman, but can we not agree that the Zaire bout played into Ali's quest to regain the title IN SPADES?
Would Ali have had a tougher time beating George in the Astrodome than in Zaire? IMO Absolutely.
Post Foreman.
Wepner. Come on, a cake walk.
Lyle. Ron fought a totally defensive fight and had already shown that you could box his ears off (Young)
Bugner. EASY win against someone who fought not to win, but to survive.
Frazier. Two warriors past prime (especially Joe) Great fight tho.
Young. Ali won (and would have pasted Jimmy in the late 60's)
but Jimmy had the aging Ali's number late.
Norton. Ali had to fight him to cement a 2-1 trilogy. But in many people's eyes, he didn't do enough to win (his hanging head after the final bell may well have spoke volumns.)
Shavers. Ali had his great chin and weathered that early round bomb from Earnie. But he (like Lyle) fought defensively and simply did not want to tire himself out (he did his homework but it wasn't enough against a clearly better fighter)
After that (and before that) were several TOTAL bums just trowled out to keep the title. Granted there weren't many more out there at the time.
He either tanked the Spinks fight or showed us that he simply didn't have it anymore.
He thrilled us again (70-77) but in no way was he the emerging monster we saw post-Liston until his exile.

 

Foreman was a baby, early to mid 20's, he was 5 to 10 years before his prime in that fight. People make that fight out to be something it's not. Bottom line is Foreman was green and he lost, it happens.

 

Foreman was green? He was in his physical prime at 25.
Ali was the only man to ko Foreman. Anyone who would try to deminish this incredible victory is no Ali fan.

 

George Foreman was green though, that's the point.
Ali knew it. Ali knew Foreman's skills and experience were lacking.

Foreman was almost universally considered too green to beat Frazier in 1973, he didn't have the top flight experience - but he was lucky to have the style and power to get the job done. Same with Norton. But those fights didn't improve Foreman at all, he didn't learn anything, he was still a relative novice.

George Foreman never actually developed into the finished article.

 

Foreman was the a force of nature in the ring. Great jab, fast (Ali was surprised at Georges speed), cut the ring like no other, tremendous will to win, great chin, killer instinct and a devastating puncher....hardest puncher I have ever seen live and in person. Very few hwts would beat the Foreman who fought Ali in 74.

 

Ali exposed Foreman's flaws. Usually George would just over-power his opponents but if someone did something different like Jimmy Young running away from him, George would have problems. George was very rusty in the Lyle fight and got caught with some spot on shots by Lyle. Even so, George knocked him out. Ali had messed George's head up in Zaire.
I believe George would have stopped Lyle in two rounds before Ali. George almost did that in the actual Lyle fight when one of the rounds was cut short. Also, Jimmy Young would have been stopped by George prior to the Ali fight.

 

Never stated he had great boxing skills. He was an all time puncher, pole like jab, killer instinct, will to win, iron chin, good speed and a great ability to cut off the ring. Again...very few hwts could beat or even last the first three rounds with the Foreman who fought Ali. Some of the attributes above are characteristics of all time great fighters.

 

Foreman was green going into the Ali bout. After that, he was out of his mental prime. Then when he came back in the 80s he was out of his physical prime. Life's not fair.