Does anyone believe Fraziers greatness took a hit with his losses to Foreman?

Apparently, Ring rated him #6 going into the Quarry bout, a year after Frazier beat him.

 

Would that be on the strength of his best win a dec over unranked Chuvalo?

 

Fixed.

 

Be careful now.

 

Most likely. Seems like winning against Chuvalo would do magic to your ranking status.

 

Yes, Buster definitely spent some time in the Ring top 10, I was aware of this, I just thought I'd check BI's rating- as they did a top 50- and was surprised he was so low actually, but i had to post it out of amusement. I think of Frazier's 68-70 a bit like Liston in the late 50s/early 60s- beating some of the top 10; becoming the best fighter in the division, then finally receiving his long-awaited title shot and winning easily. If Joe felt he was champ from 68-70 then he was only fooling himself- and New York and a few deluded fanboys- "the best" in the division, but certainly not the heavyweight champion. His championship tenure isn't very strong in reality but it's punctuated with one fantastic win...and a good hiding.

 

Sonny Liston was not considered a threat to the title until 1960. Late 1950s he was beating up on the same opponents everyone else was. They were all on the opponent circuit and familiar names on every contenders back catalogue. 1961 Sonny did a George Foreman and sat on his rating fighting the unranked Howard king and Albby Westphal. So no, Liston was not an uncrowned champion of the late 1950s back then bert whitehurst was having an easier time piston than he was Archie Moore.

In fact who wins these fights?


1.westphal v Daniels
2. Stander v king?

 

1959 who wins this fight?
Champion Floyd Patterson v or no3 rated Sonny Liston????:think

 

Patterson froze both times when he fought Liston so it would be silly to pick Floyd. However, Liston in 1959 had not yet earned an automatic shot by then. Ingo had.

I have answered your question now answer mine. Who wins out of Daniels v Westphal and king v stander?

 

But Why would Liston get the shot ahead of ingo in 1959 though? The machen win eclipsed anything Liston ever did until 1962.

 

Liston was rated no 3 in 1959, how in hell was he not considered a threat?
King decisions Stander who lost to Rico Brooks 8-11-1 prior to fighting Frazier. Westphal has no trouble beating Daniels who was a club fighter and lost to many of them . Daniels was kod by Floyd Casey just 2 fights before he "challenged "Frazier,Casey's record was 3-13-2.
Westphal was never world class but he was decent European level and German Champ, he beat Hecht ,Neuhaus,Ritter and drew with Corletti and Slade.Daniels never beat anyone worth mentioning.

 

In1959 Liston had 3 fights

Dejohn wko6
Wiiliams wko3
Valdes w ko 3

In 1960 he had 5 fights
Williams wko2
Harris wko1
Folley wko3
Machen w dec
Westphal wko1

In 59 Ingo fought no one until June when he met Patterson his previous wins included McBride and Neuhaus both beaten by Westphal.

Eclipsed ?? Oh my Lord!

In 1960 Liston was referred to as," the Champion in waiting"