You're very knowledgable and I've been reading your posts for years now. But how can you make an accurate guess as to who would beat who? I think fighters need to be rated in who they beat during their time. Its impossible to predict fight that are era's apart. And Vits coming back to beat Peter is only unprecedented because there was a paper title involved. Ali coming back and beating Quarry after his layoff is much more impressive in my opinion.
Lewis blatantly ducked Byrd and dropped the belt to avoid him. Never tried to get it back despite repeatedly claiming so. People still regard him as ATG.
Makes sense. I ,mod the history section at the scene and keep many threads out so as to not attract trolls. I prefer that and this section for serious conversation. Unfortunately there is usually a quick break down of that when the topic of Vitaly comes up.
Would be stupid IMO to say Wlad is ATG and to say Vitali is not, Vitali at least faced the best in the division in Lennox, while Wlad never did that never faced the best man beside him that is VItali ...Vitali stops him in prime!
It depends how you define ATG. As far as ability goes, he would probably be competitive with any HW in history. But as far as achievements go, I'm not sure. Coming out of retirement at age 37 after 4 years and winning the WBC title is noteworthy. But quitting on his stool against Byrd is a strike against him. However, I think Vitali's resume is underrated by some people: - he's beaten several Ring-ranked top ten HWs, such as Arreola, Gomez, Sanders, Solis (who was Ring #10 that week), Adamek, and Peter. - he's taken some "0"s (Charr, Kevin Johnson, Hoffmann, etc) and was the first to stop many opponents (Arreola, Bean, Adamek, Kirk Johnson, Donald, Solis, Charr, Peter, etc). - he's defeated several boxers who held a world title (Hide, Sanders, Briggs, Norris, Peter, Adamek, Gomez). - he's only ever lost to two very good fighters, Byrd and Lewis, both of whom are listed in the top 100 HWs of all-time by the BoxRec computer. Still, his achievements are less than Wladimir, who has had a better career at HW than Vitali, even though he's lost to a couple of ordinary boxers while Vitali has not.
Congrats, this is a pretty fair post. And while what you posted about the opponents you named is mostly true you've left out what they accomplished before and after fighting Vits. THIS is where he falls short of all time greatness in my opinion.
That is precisely what I am saying. There is a clear gap between them in terms of the depth of their resumes.
out of all those fighters u have mentioned not one is worth mentioning besides lewis and we all know what happened there. so i am not quite sure where i would list vitali in a heavyweight all time great list.
It very much depends on your definition of an all time great heavyweight. He has longevity. (at or very near the top).. Top 10 Dominance in HW title fights..................... Top 5 "Eye test" head to head............................. Top 10 Great wins...............................................Poor Overall ranking somewhere between just inside and just outside top 20. If he needs to get inside top ten for ATG status, it's not happening. If top 20 is enough. then maybe.
Yes there is. Wlads has far more quality wins. Out of the list of opponents Vits missed, Wlad fought 10 of them.