Marciano v Liston

Haven't you heard? Marciano retired to avoid Liston! :hey

In all seriousness Sonny was to green for Marciano had the Rock not retired. Head to head and at their best I'd favor Liston. His skills are very underrated by general boxing fans.

 

No dog in Marciano...Sonny quit on his stool against Ali in Miami in 1964...and was KO'd by the "phantom"...(ahem)...punch against Ali up in Maine in 1965...Marciano out guts Sonny

 

At their best Rocky would be fighting the Liston from 1958 to 1960 in my opinion. And the Rock was no Ali, he wasn't going to frustrate Liston by making him miss/

 

This thread lastly.

 

I agree on listons peak years :good rocky had limitless heart but it wouldn't be enough against liston.sonny would rip Marciano to bit with his jab before koing him.

 

Ingemar Johansson and Cleveland Williams.

 

Liston rips him apart.

 

Don't see the Liston jab working at all for Liston.

Sonnys jab was perfect outside but it was a "step in jab" not a defensive "step off jab". A "step in jab" knocks a man back but are hard to land on crowding maulers. That brings Marciano closer to neutralising the amount of leverage Liston needs to compete power for power at Rocky range.

Liston was not a bully because he showed character and heart against 175lb Marty marshal who broke his jaw but a frozen fighter definitely brought the best out of Liston. To see Liston at his incredible best required the other fellow to be psyched out. Ala Harris, ala Patterson x2. If that did not happen Sonny was more reserved, calm almost. Like sonny was against Willie besmanoff.

Marciano won't freeze, he was a genuine warrior who paid his dues at 15 round championship level. No way Rocky "brings the incredible best" out of Liston by becoming psyched out. Marciano would be incredibly awkward and frustrating without hurting Sonny. However, Marciano absolutely IS going to hurt Sonny. He hurt everyone, and this puts Liston into a bit of a dilemma, a bit of unknown territory at championship level. what has Sonny got to draw upon to help him deal with that situation? Hurt, frustrated and tired?

Liston is tough for Rocky Marciano but I think Sonny will find Rocky too awkward, too experienced, too tough, too relentless and too hard punching for him.

 

Here's my take on the most recent Marciano-Liston thread a couple weeks ago:

www.boxingforum24.com/showpost.php?p=15714321&postcount=143

Could Rocky evade Sonny's jab? This snippet suggests he could evade Liston's slowish head shots with his defensive skills. [Everybody he's shown making miss in this clip had much faster hands and far greater experience than Sonny ever acquired]:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b0yHvw-vW0

 

Mark, if's fine if your new and welcome but all you have to do is scroll down a bit and see this exact thread was just done to the point of vomiting a week ago ..

http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=488836

 

Sonny was a Boxer-Puncher, he boxed but set up his shots. If you came inside, he would fight inside, if you tried to box outside, he'd jab you. He was only 1 inch taller than Marciano yet his reach was 17 inches longer, Liston could inter-change styles between Boxer-Puncher and Slugger.

In this case, Rocky would try and come forward to KO Liston and that isn't the style needed to beat Liston really. Not only would Liston mash up Rocky's face but he'd KO Rocky inside 3 rounds.

Rocky has heart but sometimes it just isn't enough, ie: Foreman-Frazier.

I see this going like Foreman-Frazier.

 

Yeah, that thread has left us pretty wiped out for the moment on Marciano and Liston. [By the way, HEG, thanks for picking up after the rest of us, turning off the lights, and closing the door on that one when everybody else had left or passed out! I just couldn't keep up with you, choklab, mcvey, Seamus and all the other party vikings who kept at it through all 21 pages. I guess I'm just a wimp with my lousy single post on that one.]

 

The problem Marciano would have with Liston is what every other opponent who didn't run away from him had, his power. Marciano beat alot of big guys by modern standard. Big doesn't mean a thing in boxing unless the guys are of equal skill.

As much as I like Marciano I'd favour Liston. Because Liston tended to destroy basically anyone who stood infront of him and didn't dance away. Rocky was a swarmer like Patterson he wore opponents down by just throwing a high volume and he had solid power from good technique.

Patterson was no match for Liston because Liston was 220~ and Patterson was a LHW who struggled to add on pounds but the money was at hw so its where he moved up to. Patterson actually would have a decent chance of beating Marciano, particularly if Marciano stuck around. Patterson was a great knock out puncher. His main weakness was he had a lack of balance and not the best chin. Swarmers don't do well against big power punchers like that. And patterson was a swarmer with fast hands and knockout power. Frankly if any fighter was going to beat Marciano it would have been Patterson, assuming Marciao stuck around long enough. Its unrealistic that marciano have stuck around by the time liston showed up.

Patterson was favoured to beat Liston, and if you watch the highlights you'll see why. The guy has flying punches, has serious ko power and speed. On paper, there was no reason for Liston to beat him. Ali ranked him as one of four truly great fighters he fought.

 

What nobody counted on was the fact Patterson was psyched out both times he met Liston. Frozen. A sitting duck.

Patterson has a better resume than Liston. It is just that Floyd just could not perform against Sonny at all.