Does anyone believe Fraziers greatness took a hit with his losses to Foreman?

The biggest joke is the claim that Bonavena was more highly regarded than Liston in 1968. That means the 'man in the street' much have felt Ellis was a like a heavyweight Ray Robinson after the spanking he handed Oscar.

 

Well, Ali and Dundee themselves didn't do the myth any favours...they loved to talk about the delay/ripped glove, etc and embellish the events. I know Ali loved his fairy stories and this was one of them.

Like McVey said, the BBC re-ran the fight and the delay was between 6-8 seconds...but the fact that Dundee sought more time tells you how much he felt his man was hurt. The smelling salts controversy is legit, they were banned in UK rings.

 

Pretty much.

I love the guy but can't see him any lower than 7.

 

You mean "higher" than 7 surely?

 

My mistake. Only woke up less than an hour ago.

 

Where exactly do you have him?

A top 10 without Frazier seems mistaken.

 

Probably at 12.

 

Your 6-11 must be interesting.

 

I really don't see how he's definitely top 10...I think this thread has proven he hasn't beaten anywhere near the amount of contenders that some of you figured he did...also held the title for less than three years, didn't avenge a defeat and lost his crown in a "big lad throws around rag doll" manner. I think his popularity more than anything gets him a lower top 10 ranking when he does appear in one; he's one of those fighters that almost everyone seems to like. Fair enough, what's not to like? But I can't see him in a top 10 personally.

 

Again, McVey with his little digs at Frazier. ''Beating him like a child''. Was that better or worse than Ali and Jimmy Young making Foreman look like a complete hopeless buffoon over several rounds? I'm talking about Foreman fighting bums like 1-14-1 Joe Murphy Goodwin with 30 plus fights under his belt. Also amazing that suddenly Chuck Wepner is some respectable fighter when discussing Foreman's resume.

 

Good post (#296). Personally I see Joe no higher than 8th, no lower than 12th. Strong arguments for rating Sonny, Johnson and Tyson all higher. Possibly Evander and Foreman too.

 

Which fighters do you have above him?

 

Foreman has long been criticised for his pre-title fight opposition, which is more than fair...and, until now, Frazier has mostly gotten away with his, which isn't quite accurate...the fighters people thought weren't that good are actually rated much lower than you think.

 

I haven't really done a list, but if i thought about it, I wouldn't likely have him top 10...top 15 of course, but he hasn't beaten enough contenders. Why would you have him top 10? Why would he rank ahead of, say Marciano, Holmes, Lewis?

 

I wouldn't have him above those 3.

Holmes and Lewis are #3 and #4 (not in that order but I generally place them close).

Marciano at #5ish.