Joe Calzaghe v Roy Jones Jnr 2002

:rofl

If that makes you feel better so be it. Boxing fans know the difference between what Fitzsimmons did and what Jones did. You can't compare the two. They are not close to being the same thing. If you want to put an * by Roy's 'accomplishment' have at it. atsch

 

if Roy had stayed at MW would his weight have gone up to near 200 lbs.

yes or no answer (obviously no, because MW was pretty much his natural weight).


was bob fitzsimmons (your example not mine) not yielding a natural build disadvantage of a MW to a HW when he signed to fight for the HW title.
Yes or no? (yes he was)

If Manny Pacman stoked up with pies and mash to superflabby 200lbs would he not be carrying the disadvantge of his build against a HW? Yes or no (yes he would).

Do more than 1 or 2 MWs go up to HW each decade to figth at HW?
yes or no? (yes, hardly any do, let alone taking a title which has only happened once or twice a century).

 

You tell me. He did however beat James Toney which is better than anything Calzaghe ever did and he only had five more fights at the weight anyway. It was only a stop gap on his way up to LHW as SMW was not taken seriously at the time, it was seen as no more than a hide out division for guys who couldn't compete at 160 or 175.

 

I am not comparing the two.

You simply WANT me to compare the two. Its all about what you imagine, once again.

 

It's strange. He hates on Roy for fighting bums, having a glass jaw and taking steroids, yet constantly defends Wladimir Klitschko.

 

If it isn't history then name how many have won world titles at MW-SMW-LHW and HW.. no Byrd and Toney didn't, nice try though..

Holding it against Roy for not fighting Lennox = Hater of the highest possible order... Do you understand the size difference that would have been?? obvisouly not, since you cant appreciate Roy overcoming Ruiz size.

Shut up about Spinks.. He was a HUGE LHW and didn't fight at MW!! it isn't the same, how many times do I have to tell you?atsch

Again trying to argue facts.. He is actually the ONLY fighter in history to hold titles at those 4 weights. That means it is history...

A glass jawed joke that started at 154 lbs that at one point was rated #1 at LHW and #3 at HW at the same time!! More FACTUAL EVIDENCE that speaks much louder than your BIASED OPINION.:deal

 

Pretty sure there is a reason it is called Heavyweight. That doesn't mean you get to pick who you fight and call yourself a 'champion' because someone is 'too big' for you. The weight is unlimited. :rofl I am glad a lot of the champions of the past didn't have that attitude.

Also, I am pretty certain Toney won belts at MW, SMW, Cruiserweight, and Heavyweight beating they same guy Jones did in easier fashion and knocking him down in the process.

Spinks moved up from LHW just like Jones did though he elected to fight THE champion instead of a trinket beltholder which he very well could have done so yes it is relevant.

So yeah once again Jones didn't make History and he didn't fight THE champion.

 

what part of the concept of history running ONE WAY IN TIME escapes you? That if someone Jones beats Ruiz before Toney then its him making history, and not Toney who fought Ruiz after JOnes did?

What part of the concept of 'before' and 'after' is not hitting home for you?

Does history not run the same way for you as it does for everyone else in ....history?

 

Where did I say Toney made History? :roflatsch

He didn't he did the same thing Jones did who guess what? Also didn't make history how do you not get that?

Wow.

 

Right so you compared them to denigrate jones. And in fact its true that only a handful of MWs have taken a HW title, I totally agree with that bit. that's fine. Jones feat wasn't the absolute beast ever, but it was still a major feat.


Its still history. The SMW records of Calzaghe and Ottke aren't invalid just because the SMW divisions are relatively new - sure they are made weaker but they aren't non existent.

But if you think that going from LMW to HW title isn't history simply because LMW and four titles didn't exist in the past then you have to accept that all the LMH records, and all the SMW records that ever existed or will exist are also not part of history and never will be. Which is obviously untrue.

 

And again, name me those past champions that were Roys size, going up against skilled mammoths like the Klits and Lennox... Just a simple 1-10 list will do since there are so many..

I am sure Bob Fitzsimmons could appreciate Jim Corbet was 6 ft 186 and not 6'6 250. Also, blacks weren't even allowed in title fights back then...

Did Toney win a belt in the historic LHW weight class? No
Also, how much size difference did Ruiz have on Toney? And I am surprised you think he did it in easier fashion than Jones, I thought Roy's performance was much more spectacular.. Plus, Roy did it first..

Spinks was not giving up the kind of size Roy was.. What don't you understand? Two totally different things.. Why are you so simple minded?

No, it is a FACT that Roy won belts in those weights.. and he is only the second fighter to do so.. that means it is history. I am not going to sit here and argue that blue is blue any longer.

 

Ottke? :huh Why even bring him up? We all know the score with him.

You can call it a 'major feat' that would be your opinion and is fine but it isn't history like you so desperately want it to be. Had he fought Lennox we could certainly call it history. But, he didn't. Just like he didn't face two handfuls of other fighters in his career for whatever reasons.

The guy didn't want to be great he could have it was available to him but he was Reluctant for whatever reason he was content just taking the path of least resistance then blaming the world for the backlash.

 

So you dont know? How about taking a guess.

 

It is called HEAVYWEIGHT for a reason. Size doesn't matter. When you are fighting in the Heavyweight Division you can't whine and cry because someone is 'bigger' than you. Roy should have just went to Cruiserweight if he was wanting a weight limit. You can't move up to Heavyweight and say "awe, I can't fight these guys they are too damn big and skilled for me" it doesn't work that way. Sorry.

You didn't hear Jack Dempsey saying Jess Willard was too big. Or Max Bear crying that Carnera was too big. Or Conn saying Louis was too big, skillful and "punched too hard" these men went up and tried to win. You heard Glass Jaw Roy say these things because he was a businessman not a fighter. He took the easy road. :hi:

 

I don't desperately want it to be anything. I'm not even a fan of RJJ, I'm a neutral to him. I've seen maybe 1 or 2 of his fights ever. You desperately want me to be a fan though, its that anger directed against roy fans that feeds you or you wouldn't be replying to me.

since no LM has done this before, then its history, same as no records have been set for SMW before SMWs existed, so Calzaghes record defences and Roy being the only LMW to win a HW title are either both history or they are both not. You cant have it both ways.