Prime James J. Jeffries vs Jack Johnson

They consider this because after nearly 100 fights, 30 or more of them when he was well past his prime and in his 50's for some of them,Johnson finished his career unmarked .

Jeffries by contrast had his nose broken several times had a cauliflower ear and scar tissue over both eyes, and this after only 21 fights only one of which being when he was past prime.

 

This is why I specified the later pre-retirement Jeffries. Jeffries was a raw fighter during his early days, but improved markedly as his reign continued.

It also doesn't answer the more fundamental issue that many of the same people who criticize Jeffries for being an unskilled dinosaur praise Johnson for his boxing skills -- which bear almost no relationship to modern boxing.

 

It would be misguided to say that either of them was unskilled.

Each was as good at doing what they did as any fighter has ever been.

 

I agree with this.

My issue is people who claim that Jeffries was primitive because he doesn't fight like a modern fighter, but look at Johnson and claim he was some sort of boxing wizard. It's the double standard that bothers me.

 

For whatever its worth, Jeffries always considered himself to be a superior technician.

I think that early in his career, there was an element of wishful thinking to this.

Even so, by the time of the second Corbett fight there were not too many better technicians in the division.

That was part of the reason behind Jeffries aura of invincibility.

He had always been bigger than the other top contenders, but now he had closed the gap on them in terms of technique.

 

Jeffries benefited from hundreds of rounds of sparring with Corbett , and when he went on the vaudevile circuit Fitz coached him, it would be surprising if he did not improve.

A big factor in his second time around perfomances against Corbett and Fitz was of course their inactivity and age.
Having said that Fitz had no trouble at all landing on Jeffries in their second encounter and Fitz was an old man, only the fact that Fitz smashed his hands, which were damaged when he went in and that he was so much older, lighter, and Jeffries was so much stronger ,enabled Jeffries to prevail.

Reports of the fight put the victory down to Jeffries youth ,size , strength,and durability not to improved technique.

Corbett was finished when he met Jeffries the second time so that fight is no yard stick.

 

Based on common opponents, I would say Jeffries had the better Chin and the bigger punch. (He floored Choyniski 3x, stopped Everett and Griffin) I would say Johnson was by far the better defensive fighter and a true pioneer in defensive prowess. Stamina was close to equal to both fighters. When it comes to heavyweights though moreso than any other division I'll go with the fighter with the better whiskers, because all heavyweights get tested and when big men throw bombs you want the man who can take it. Even Ali, won a great deal of fights because he could take what the other man had to dish out. Sure Jeffries took more punches in all his fights than Johnson but that was his style just as Marciano wasn't going to win beauty pageants after his fights. The bottom line is he got the job done. Just Like Johnson got the job done with his style like Tunney did. Both are ATGs.

On another note, if anyone here is a member of boxrec have them adjust Jack Johnson's record they have his fight with Pete Everatt incorrectly labled a Draw.

 

After Choynski , Johnson went 15 years before he was kod again .
Jeffries ,Sharkey,Corbett, and Johnson called Choynski the hardest hitter they met.
It should also be remembered that unlike Jeffries ,Johnson fought many years past his prime and was not kod until he was 37 ,and only after 26 rds.
We saw what happened when Jeffries had one fight when past it.

I think it entirely likely that had Jeffries continued as long as Johnson he would have had some stoppage defeats on his record. He came very close to losing to Fitz second time around and he was prime ,whereas Fitz was all but 40 years old.
That fight would have been stopped today.
Johnson's chin was sturdy enough , though not in Jeffries class, but then very few were.

Boxrec are also missing a few of Johnson's fights.

 

We all know that Johnson was a great counter puncher, blocker and a defensive wizard.

What were Jeffries particular skills ,in your opinion?

 

Perhaps there are some newspapers that felt Everett won, thus box rec changed the Johnson vs. Everett match to a draw?

Another common opponent was Munroe. Jeffries destroyed him in two rounds. Johnson took a more out of shape Munroe the distance.

 

Have you ever seen a newspaper that suggested Everett won?

Ringside reports of the Munroe / Johnson fight state that Johnson toyed with Munroe they also remarked how utterly lacking in skill he was ,even to the extent of not being able to throw a punch correctly,and this was a man that Jeffries defended his title against a year earlier.:think

 

Johnson - Everett was a draw. I will have the accounts in my upcoming book.

 

I am going to go with the guy with the better Chin and that is Jeffries. Honestly it is probably a 50/50 fight.

 

Ward credits Johnson with the win but I am happy to defer to your extensive research Your book is shaping up to be the definitive one on Johnson.As your others on former champs have turned out to be.

 

Thanks. Trust me, my research is far more extensive. If you notice, Ward briefly mentions a Johnson win over Everett on page 48, but he cites no source. He was likely relying on a secondary source. Even Johnson's autobio incorrectly claimed a KO victory.

There perhaps is more than meets the eye to the Everett fight, but I'll let you read my book for the details. What I can tell you is that officially it was ruled a 20-round draw by the referee and sole arbiter.