Does anyone believe Fraziers greatness took a hit with his losses to Foreman?

Totally agree with your Holmes and Lewis placings. I think Sonny has a good argument for 5th, it's between him Johnson and Marciano probably. Tyson around 8th probably.

 

Liston is a tough cookie.

H2H he's damn good but the losses really hurt him. Resume isn't too bad either.

I don't think I'd rank him above Joe but I wouldn't be outraged either.


I'm not too well schooled on Johnson so I can't comment on him.

 

Oh, and now Mcvey is counting winning records? So Frazier gets no credit for beating George Chuvalo because Chuvalo wasn't ranked when Frazier beat him, but Foreman beat some guy with a 4-2 record, and that's a good thing. Like I said, Frazier should have cleaned up on a few of the same stinkbombs Foreman did so he'd have more wins overall. Maybe instead of fighting Ali in his 27th fight he should have fought Foreman's 27th opponent, 14-23-2 Stamford Harris.

 

He did do...when he was world champ and when he was New York champ.

 

Post-Ali with those bums Stander and Daniels, absolutely. Bonavena, Quarry, Ellis, and Ali I don't think is too bad of a resume.

 

By the way, this discussion sounds awfully familiar, one that I remember taking place on Jerry Quarry's website several years ago (not sure if it's even still around). The little cowardly insults "beating him like a child", bashing Frazier's resume while praising Foreman's (which is why I've been on the Foreman thing, because I remember the same idiots over there using silly qualifiers like "he beat 21 fighters with winning records!!!").

 

It's a good resume , but it does not constitute," cleaning out the division."

 

Listing Daniels and Stander as part of a resume isn't wise. Bonavena? Sure, but he gets a draw in a 10 point must system in their first fight.

 

Does that mean Frazier's not the only one who does not make your top10, but Marciano, Holmes and Lewis too?

 

I am merely rebutting your statment that Foreman fought a load of tomato cans.
BTW Foreman's 28th opponent a month after Harris , was a rematch with 96 fight Peralta who had gone the distance with him a year earlier.

 

Then just put him at the bottom of the list if you have to..

 

Interestingly enough I got Wlad at 12. I think he will reach #10 when all's said and done.

Vitali I don't care for.

 

Lyle, Norton and perhaps Terrel are the only ones that I feel were really missing in Joe´s "to do list". But again, I am not sure how relevant was Norton as a prime challenger before up to 1972.

 

From a cold analytical point of view, sure the losses to Foreman took a lot away from Frazier's resume.

However, on the other side those losses (Kingston particularly) cemented Joe´s legacy as a corageous fighter, who would go down on his shield. To this day I am persuaded that hadn´t the referee stopped the fight, Joe would have fought Foreman to the death.

If nothing else, Kingston proved that Joe had the heart of a lion.

 

FOTC had already proved that. Mercante stopped the Kingston massacre before there was a fatality, and he was a little late in doing so imo.