Does anyone believe Fraziers greatness took a hit with his losses to Foreman?

Damn right ! This fight should have been stopped after the third knockdown.

 

Is that a joke?

 

Frazier is outside the top ten. But he had a great run at a very competative bunch of young talent. Who was more relevant than the guys Frazier did beat? To knock him I want to know who he should have fought?

 

He kept gettin up so you never know..In the Champions forever interview he had to ask George how many times he was knocked down!, Im pretty sure Joe had no real good memory of either of those fights...And why would he?

 

No. Do I amuse you?

 

Marciano needs to be atleast 5th...As far as Sonny Liston goes anyone(especially a champion) that throws a fight loses there right to be on a top 10 list..Theres no way Id ever put him ahead of Frazier!

 

Laying it down.

 

Ya!..A little bit!:-(

 

Style makes fights to use an old cliché. Frazier was favored in the fight by a 3-1 margin even though he only had 2 fights since his match with Ali in MSG 2 years before.

While Foreman had my hero Archie Moore in his corner, Frazier's corner failed to make note of the speed of Foreman's punches. Frazier only knew how to move forward and press thereby becoming easy pickings for Foreman who heeded Moore's advice to use a push in order to stop the pressing, keep some distance thereby neutralizing Frazier's lefts, and leave Frazier more vulnerable to those awesome power punches. There simply was no time to make an adjustment to his style in that first round so that "down goes Frazier" has become a sports mantra for the ages.

 

Then I guess we can take Joe Gans (for the McGovern fight), Willie Pep (for Lulu Perez) and Jake LaMotta off our lists, eh?

 

I wouldnt go that far, But Liston disgraced the sport and himself, the shoulder incident, the substance on the gloves, and completely throwing the 2nd fight!. First sign of trouble and he bitched out.

 

And Liston wasnt half the man that LaMotta and Pep were!

 

In a way the Foreman loss was good for his legacy. Think about it. If Foreman hadnt walked through Fraizer then Ali wouldnt have gotten the greatest win of his career. And since Fraizers claim to greatness is based on the win over Ali, his legacy improves with Ali's great wins. If he had beaten Foreman on the other hand, it would have done nothing for his resume, as Foreman was young and untested.

 

There was no substance on the gloves. That's all rumor with nothing to back it with (we've done threads on this that I'm sure you're aware of). Even Angelo Dundee didn't think there was.

 

Just out of curiosity, why do you feel that LaMotta was a better man than Liston?