Wlad v Dempsey

Youre on the forum 24/7 get lost..u know what ill leave

 

Which historian do you refer? Also, are even great trainers experts at who would win in head-to-head combat? If they are, then why did loads of them constantly pick the wrong guy in those old KO 'head-to-head' articles they used to have? The only one who was seldom wrong was fence-sitting Angelo "Fighter A early, or Fighter B late" Dundee. :yep

 

Gilbert Odd

But we also have his power where he did do Willard,Firpo and Sharkey what bigger men Johnson and Wills could not do over 10.

 

A bigger man with an all-time great jab, who's adopted a relative 'safety-first style to win is different gravy to your Willard's and Firpo's. Gilbert Odd doesn't have carte blanche on who'd win in all-time head-to-head match-ups believe it or not. Odd is dead now- so his opinion on who'd win this match-up doesn't exist.

 

Right. Anyone who compares Willard to Wlad has no clue.

I would pick Wlad but Dempsey has the right mind set and style, combined with great speed and punching power to end it early.

Dempsey was pure hell in a clinch with wicked kidney shots, and beltline shots. Clinching Dempsey just to tie him up is not going to prevent him from hitting you.

60/40 type of fight for Wlad.

 

Odd never saw Klitschko,he was gone before then. I was talking in response to "Dempsey being one of the vicious hitters in HW history" which Seamus said he is not, which is a load of bollocks.

Wlad may be safety first and all that but people are walking straight into him and his tactics and movement are predictable where as Jack is unpredictable and faster. Wlad has more problems on his hand then Jack

 

Of course he was one of the most vicious hitters.
He was downright vicious. :good

 

I am not hear to say old time fighters are superior to modern. This is not always the case, though the heavy division today is pitiful. But boxing was more competitive in the past when it held a greater hold on the public. True, I am fascinated by Dempsey’s life and fighting style. I would rate Dempsey a top 10 heavy after Ali, Holmes, Frazier, Foreman and a few others. I admit that Dempsey’s myth and legend exceed the reality, but what a reality it was. I am simply saying that if Wlad were born in Dempsey’s day, and they fought, Dempsey would score a KO, relatively easy against a tall, gangly, mechanical “fighter” with a glass jaw. If Wlad were a contemporary of Ali and Frazier, I wonder if he would be ranked at all.
To often we judge old time heavyweights vs. modern on appearance. Lets face it, people are bigger now, nutrition, hormones in food, etc. The average size male today is 5-9+ 190 lbs. The average male in 1920 was 5-7 150ish. Better training, nutrition, PEDs have resulted in bigger more impressive looking fighters. PED testing in boxing is a joke. The Klitschko’s are admitted steroid users, and probably continue using HGH and other PEDs today. If the Wlad and Vitaly were around in Dempsey’s day they would be the equivalent of Fred Fulton and Jess Willard respectively, though Vitaly would probably not be as strong as Willard. I think you know the results of those men vs Dempsey. Holyfield, considered by some the greatest heavy of the of the last 30 years was a raw boned 6-2 185 lb cruiser at age 24, even with weight training and proper nutrition. Dempsey fought most of his prime around 190 +/-. Had Holyfield fought in the in the 20s or 50s, he would have been a middleweight. So we should not perseverate on fighters size when comparing generations.
Skills of boxers and other athletes improve over time, like everything else. High school students today learn physics and calculus principals that exceed the levels known by Sir Isaac Newton or other great minds of the past. Does this lesson the genius of Newton or make an average youth superior to great minds of the past? Absolutely not. Greatness is greatness in any era. And after watching Wlad get knocked out in terrible fashion, and look absolutely boring and unwatchable in his victories. He is certainly not great by any stretch of the imagination. He is simply taking advantage of the pathetic competition of his day.

 

Wlad beats anybody pre-60s EASILY.

 

I guess Lamon Brewster fought in the 1950s?

 

I'm not sure if Wlad would get out of this fight alive if it took place when Dempsey fought, Jack Dempsey would kill Wlad no doubt about it with 1,2,3 round KO. Wlad would be out cold

 

Dempsey was a guy who liked to go out fast against large ham and eggers and finish them. When he found that wasn't possible, against decent boxers like lightheavy Tommy Gibbons, he resorted to plan B, a slow wearing down process wherein he imposed his relative physicality. Wlad is a boxer of the highest level of Superheavyweight Boxing Skills, i.e. the utilization of range, timing, strength and power. Dempsey has no chance against such a foe, none at all. Wlad would stifle his barroom brawler initial attack and he would do the wearing down process here and stop him toward the 10th. As one-sided as imaginable.

 

Wlad is void of boxing skill. Show me one punch he ever slipped and then countered. Very basic boxing but it's nothing that Wlad can do. It's all about keeping an opponent at arms length and then holding for dear life any time they get too close. Thats not good boxing let alone great. Add to this a glass chin and very questionable will to win. Then to top it off he fights the worst bunch of hwts in boxing history. One solid punch from Dempsey, Marciano, Liston, Foreman...heck even Holmes would put Wlad not only down but with that look on his face that he wants his mama. Watch his bouts with Brewster, Purrity and Sanders. All these three did was hit him on the chin and he fell in sections on the canvas. Quick hwts like Dempsey would hit the slow moving statue with the Olympic style with ease. With Wlad all it takes is to hit him once and the bout is over. He knows this and this is why he fights the style he does.

 

After rewatching films of Wlad-Sanders and Dempsey-Firpo, I'll take Dempsey in this one. Wlad would probably have an easy time with Tunney who in turn might beat Dempsey any time more often than not, but Dempsey has just what it takes against Wlad.

I see Firpo and Sanders as big men of about the same size and probably punching power, but Dempsey could take the best Firpo could throw at him. Dempsey could take a licking and keep on ticking. Wlad was gone the moment he got hurt. He didn't recover during the minute rest.

 

If you see similarities skill wise or talent wise between Firpo and Sanders, I don't even know where to begin this conversation.