Evander Holyfield vs Muhammad Ali, 12 rounds. Prime for prime.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Shake, Oct 17, 2013.


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  1. Shake

    Shake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I was scanning the heavyweight division for people to trouble Ali -- and I pondered on Evander. Ali is nigh impossible to stop, so we're looking for someone to outpoint him. We need workrate, heart and quick feet. Purely on paper, Holyfield doesn't do too bad in those categories. He can come in low and he's a hooker (boy that sounds wrong). Could he be such a persistent pest that he runs Ali close?

    He doesn't box as well as Ken Norton, and he doesn't pressure as well as Frazier. But neither does both as well as he. So he's an acceptable mix of the two. Does that work, though? Does one need to be a specialist? Does a jack-of-all-trades leave you wanting in all categories?

    Larry Holmes vs Holyfield, part 1:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41WQf6u46D4

    Fighting a Holmes on the comeback trail hardly qualifies you for prime Ali, but I find at least the early rounds vs ancient greats to provide a clue.

    Watching the first round I see a Holyfield that doesn't resist being tied up -- that worries me. He seems open defensively for Ali's one-two on the tip-toes, but Larry's vaunted jab has slowed with age and isn't quite the fearsome weapon it used to be and sails past for the most part.

    If Ali can stay out of reach it is possible that Holyfield, looking to take chances on offense, reverts back to that defense. It would be bad.

    On offense, I see chances for Holyfield getting low and stepping in with the left hook.

    How would you see this going?
     
    Shake, Oct 17, 2013
    Shake, Oct 17, 2013
    #1
  2. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Alis speed is the great obstacle. Prime Ali was just too quick and he saw everything coming which allowed him to slip punches easily. Ali moves about the ring with Holy in pursuit but he can't find his target..in process he is beaten up. Ali by late stoppage probably because of cuts/swelling. Holy has a few moments but not enough of them. Ali TKO 12 with him leading 8-3 when it's stopped.
     
    HOUDINI, Oct 17, 2013
    HOUDINI, Oct 17, 2013
    #2
  3. DaveK

    DaveK Vicious & Malicious Full Member

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    Holyfield makes things uncomfortable for Ali, but doesn't win more than 4 or 5 rounds at most. Close-ish, but clear win for Ali.
     
    DaveK, Oct 18, 2013
    DaveK, Oct 18, 2013
    #3
  4. FlyingFrenchman

    FlyingFrenchman Active Member Full Member

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    Ali beat HW Champs Patterson x2, Liston x2, Terrell (WBA), Ellis (WBA), Frazier x2, Foreman, and L. Spinks. Holyfield beat more Lineal HW Champs than anybody. He beat Douglas, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson x2, Bowe, Moorer, and Rahman. He drew with Lewis. He also beat other HW Champs including Thomas, Dokes, Mercer (WBO), and Ruiz. Holyfield would give Ali hell but come up a little short after 12 or 15 rounds.
     
    FlyingFrenchman, Oct 18, 2013
    FlyingFrenchman, Oct 18, 2013
    #4
  5. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Precisely this. Holy has his moments,definitely but not nearly enough of them.
     
    Stevie G, Oct 19, 2013
    Stevie G, Oct 19, 2013
    #5
  6. gentleman jim

    gentleman jim gentleman jim Full Member

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    Holy would have his moments but prime Ali has too much hand and foot speed for Evander. Ali by unanimous decision.
     
    gentleman jim, Oct 19, 2013
    gentleman jim, Oct 19, 2013
    #6
  7. Xplosive

    Xplosive Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ali wins by a wide margin.
     
    Xplosive, Oct 20, 2013
    Xplosive, Oct 20, 2013
    #7
  8. BUDW

    BUDW Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ali wins UD maybe TKO
     
    BUDW, Oct 20, 2013
    BUDW, Oct 20, 2013
    #8
  9. spinner

    spinner Active Member banned Full Member

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    Agree 100%.

    Ali's superior boxing skill will win it.
     
    spinner, Oct 21, 2013
    spinner, Oct 21, 2013
    #9
  10. Anubis

    Anubis Boxing Addict

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    Evander just doesn't have the defensive skills to stop Ali from piling up points. He can go the distance, but I don't see this as being a particularly close decision.
     
    Anubis, Oct 21, 2013
    Anubis, Oct 21, 2013
    #10
  11. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    John..I'm speechless. Ali was by far much quicker than Holy...both and and foot. Not comparable in any way shape or form.
     
    HOUDINI, Oct 21, 2013
    HOUDINI, Oct 21, 2013
    #11
  12. Anubis

    Anubis Boxing Addict

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    Here's a fat old out of shape Ali preparing for Evangelista against a 5-0 Dokes:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM6UpbLgLJI
     
    Anubis, Oct 21, 2013
    Anubis, Oct 21, 2013
    #12
  13. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    John..your very young. Prime Ali was far quicker than not only Holy but any other hwt champion. It's not close. Alis legs alone allowed him to make opponents miss. His punches came so quick opponents could not slip them. Holy was a great fighter but to say he was as fast or faster than Ali is just plain ignorant.
     
    HOUDINI, Oct 21, 2013
    HOUDINI, Oct 21, 2013
    #13
  14. yancey

    yancey Active Member Full Member

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    While I think Ali decisions Holyfield, your point about levels of competition is right on the money.

    Ali HAD to look invincible against the stiffs he faced in '66 and '67.
     
    yancey, Oct 21, 2013
    yancey, Oct 21, 2013
    #14
  15. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    John...your lost.
     
    HOUDINI, Oct 21, 2013
    HOUDINI, Oct 21, 2013
    #15
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