I personally don't think Pac has lost a step

cippi · Oct 30, 2013

an after he beats rios and i want to see him fight provo!! most entertainment value an still a sensible fight not like manny/mosley or manny/margs

the cobra · Oct 30, 2013

He's looked to have slowed down a bit - both his hands and his feet - over the course of his past 4 fights. He also hasn't shown the ability to maintain the kind of hectic pace he was known for in his prime in those last 4 fights, and it's possible that his punch resistance has dropped given how long and arduous his career has been, but the enhanced impact of JMM's shots in the 4th fight could just be down to his opponent focusing more on strength training and sitting down on his shots full-stop with the intent to hurt. They were also two perfect punches, the last of which saw him rather carelessly lead all of his own momentum into it. Still, doubts linger about that aspect as well.

I think he's lost a step, maybe two. Not a massive deterioration though, and he's still good enough to hang with anybody and beat most of them. Still good enough to probably punish Rios pretty badly.

kirk · Oct 30, 2013

He quite clearly has, imo.

And I stated it at the time. After the Mosley fight, I said, for as easy as he won, I felt he himself didn't look as sharp. then came JMM 3, a fight in which hes fought a guy razor close 2 times before. And he looked the worst ive ever seen him look.

Then, Bradley. The Pac that fought Cotto would have so convincingly beat Bradley there would have been no room for a robbery, if Tim even made it to the final bell.

And finally, getting not just dropped, hard, for the first time against JMM, but brutally KO'd in a KOTY shocker.

To me, its more then just the results though, its how he looks during these fights. Is he shot? heck no.... is he even 'pretty past it', no. But, has he lost a step? Yes he has, imo. And its very apparent when I watch him fight.

And also, I don't see why theres this pushback at the idea of Pac being past his best. Considering his long career, many tough fights, many more brutal training camps, his age, and that his style is almost completely reliant on an athletic ability with a good chin behind it, to think that he is somehow at his best after it all, I just don't get it.

Farmboxer · Oct 30, 2013

Actually, he has been looking like the Pac of yesterday, really hard punches, very fast, moves extremely well. I expect him to knock Rios out. Marquez just landed a lucky punch while getting the crap beaten out of him. Marquez is afraid to fight Pac in a rematch. Void is still running from Pac, so that tells me something.............

this_and_that · Oct 30, 2013

dangerousity said: ↑

I agree, people are generally fickle and just judges a fighter on record win/loss. As if you are a better fighter if you win your last fight, and worst fighter if you lost your last fight...when really it comes down to situations. I see people say **** like "oh he lost his last 2 fights", well duh, if a guy has fought cab drivers for 30 fights and suddenly fights Floyd and Pac in a row, he probably will have 2 losses in a row, doesn't mean he's shot.

It's the same logic people apply in saying Pac has lost or dont have power, using the whole "when was his last KO?" argument. I mean these people are so fickle they cant analyse the overall situation. Consider Pac's opponents last 3 years, JMM - who he has never KO'd at any weight class so he's exempt. Bradley, who has an iron chin and when he doesn't want to get hit, is pretty hard to hit clean often enough, again never been KO'd. Nobody is gonna say Provodnikov lacks power, yet he didnt KO Bradley, and yes he KD Bradley but Bradley didnt fight him like he did Pac. Then you got Mosley - no KO but Pac KD him which is a big testament to his power if anything. Canelo who has 20lbs on Pac couldnt even do that. Clottey who had 15lbs on Pac and went on a shell and Margarito who had 20lbs on Pac and nearly went down.

But "numbers dont lie", fickle people who can't analyse situations past numbers and records.

He beat Bradley easy IMO but he also looked shot in that fight, the stamina, killer instinct and dynamism wasnt there, perhaps due to lack of motivation. He looked great against JMM though. Now I am concerned as to whether his chin is gone or not, people forget how many wars Pac has taken in his career, its possible his punch resistance has gone down but to be honest, I give more credit to JMM's new punching power. Heredia obviously did something right. Also I do believe he has problems with his calves tightening up during the fight, you see him complaining about it mid fight and using less foot movement, its obviously affecting his game. None of this will be a factor vs Rios though, at the end of the day Pac is still top 2 p4p fighter H2H IMO and just way above Rios.

Just to add, this fickle mindset by simpletons who aren't capable of analysing boxing past numbers is the same reason why some people actually think Garcia would trouble Floyd. IMO Amir Khan gives Floyd much more problems than Garcia, Khan has height, reach and speed. Garcia has absolutely nothing that can trouble Floyd, he has Margarito like speed without the size advantage. But people only see Garcia winning fights, Khan getting ktfo.
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Can't agree more.:good

MoJoGoodie · Oct 31, 2013

He's not 'A+' anymore he is just 'A' and quite frankly his 'A' is better than everyone not named Floyd or JMM

Holy Grail · Oct 31, 2013

dangerousity said: ↑

I agree, people are generally fickle and just judges a fighter on record win/loss. As if you are a better fighter if you win your last fight, and worst fighter if you lost your last fight...when really it comes down to situations. I see people say **** like "oh he lost his last 2 fights", well duh, if a guy has fought cab drivers for 30 fights and suddenly fights Floyd and Pac in a row, he probably will have 2 losses in a row, doesn't mean he's shot.

It's the same logic people apply in saying Pac has lost or dont have power, using the whole "when was his last KO?" argument. I mean these people are so fickle they cant analyse the overall situation. Consider Pac's opponents last 3 years, JMM - who he has never KO'd at any weight class so he's exempt. Bradley, who has an iron chin and when he doesn't want to get hit, is pretty hard to hit clean often enough, again never been KO'd. Nobody is gonna say Provodnikov lacks power, yet he didnt KO Bradley, and yes he KD Bradley but Bradley didnt fight him like he did Pac. Then you got Mosley - no KO but Pac KD him which is a big testament to his power if anything. Canelo who has 20lbs on Pac couldnt even do that. Clottey who had 15lbs on Pac and went on a shell and Margarito who had 20lbs on Pac and nearly went down.

But "numbers dont lie", fickle people who can't analyse situations past numbers and records.

He beat Bradley easy IMO but he also looked shot in that fight, the stamina, killer instinct and dynamism wasnt there, perhaps due to lack of motivation. He looked great against JMM though. Now I am concerned as to whether his chin is gone or not, people forget how many wars Pac has taken in his career, its possible his punch resistance has gone down but to be honest, I give more credit to JMM's new punching power. Heredia obviously did something right. Also I do believe he has problems with his calves tightening up during the fight, you see him complaining about it mid fight and using less foot movement, its obviously affecting his game. None of this will be a factor vs Rios though, at the end of the day Pac is still top 2 p4p fighter H2H IMO and just way above Rios.

Just to add, this fickle mindset by simpletons who aren't capable of analysing boxing past numbers is the same reason why some people actually think Garcia would trouble Floyd. IMO Amir Khan gives Floyd much more problems than Garcia, Khan has height, reach and speed. Garcia has absolutely nothing that can trouble Floyd, he has Margarito like speed without the size advantage. But people only see Garcia winning fights, Khan getting ktfo.
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:good

Only change I would make is, change "fickle" to "******ed" and it is more accurate.

unsentdemon · Oct 31, 2013

I feel that Pacquiao lost motivation more than losing a step. Pacquiao really wanted and still wants the Mayweather fight, his career has been a meteoric rise climbing and climbing every fight. A After the Mayweather fight falling through so many times he probably felt like there was no where to go, seriously what else can he look forward to accomplishing at this point that rivals fighting Mayweather?? I believe that Manny's only motivating factor is a mayweather fight so he can prove without a shadow of a doubt that he's the best of this era. Without that fight being a possibility he might as well retire since there is nothing else out there for him.

articuno · Oct 31, 2013

Yeah dumb people say he lost it, just cause he lost! Not looking at his opponents,

If they aint coming straight towards him, he dont look that great.

Rios will walk in straight lines towards him

A|C|S · Oct 31, 2013

I dont think he lost a step either he actually looked good against Bradley i didnt think he'd look that good, he was landing hard left hands basically every round

Marquez has always had his number so 3 and 4 he lost because Marquez has figured him out not because he lost a step

FilipMNE · Oct 31, 2013

Just dont judge did he lost his step on Rios fight, he will look amazing even at 30% of what he used to be:good

No Fear · Oct 31, 2013

It's not a 'step' he's lost, but his Chin.

Pacquiao is going to be left lifeless and limp on the canvas on 23 November 2013. Rios will finish him inside 10. Easy money :deal .

CC-Tron · Oct 31, 2013

markq said: ↑

OK, I'll be serious. He actually looked good against Marquez but I'll argue Marquez looked a lot slower than he usually does because of the mass and him settling down for power punches. Pac got too confident and got KTFO. Pac looked good against Bradley. Pac hasn't lost much in my eyes. If he didn't have *******s as fans, the KO wouldn't have been blown to the proportion it has. I don't want there to be any excuses when Floyd schools him.
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Marquez looked a lot slower because Bradley is just that fast. There was a good reason why Marquez repeatedly said he needed to work on his speed in pre-fight interviews. Tim is faster than Pac which he proved on two bad feet. I believe Bradley gets the win vs. Pac in a rematch.

Don't Sleep · Oct 31, 2013

dangerousity said: ↑

I agree, people are generally fickle and just judges a fighter on record win/loss. As if you are a better fighter if you win your last fight, and worst fighter if you lost your last fight...when really it comes down to situations. I see people say **** like "oh he lost his last 2 fights", well duh, if a guy has fought cab drivers for 30 fights and suddenly fights Floyd and Pac in a row, he probably will have 2 losses in a row, doesn't mean he's shot.

It's the same logic people apply in saying Pac has lost or dont have power, using the whole "when was his last KO?" argument. I mean these people are so fickle they cant analyse the overall situation. Consider Pac's opponents last 3 years, JMM - who he has never KO'd at any weight class so he's exempt. Bradley, who has an iron chin and when he doesn't want to get hit, is pretty hard to hit clean often enough, again never been KO'd. Nobody is gonna say Provodnikov lacks power, yet he didnt KO Bradley, and yes he KD Bradley but Bradley didnt fight him like he did Pac. Then you got Mosley - no KO but Pac KD him which is a big testament to his power if anything. Canelo who has 20lbs on Pac couldnt even do that. Clottey who had 15lbs on Pac and went on a shell and Margarito who had 20lbs on Pac and nearly went down.

But "numbers dont lie", fickle people who can't analyse situations past numbers and records.

He beat Bradley easy IMO but he also looked shot in that fight, the stamina, killer instinct and dynamism wasnt there, perhaps due to lack of motivation. He looked great against JMM though. Now I am concerned as to whether his chin is gone or not, people forget how many wars Pac has taken in his career, its possible his punch resistance has gone down but to be honest, I give more credit to JMM's new punching power. Heredia obviously did something right. Also I do believe he has problems with his calves tightening up during the fight, you see him complaining about it mid fight and using less foot movement, its obviously affecting his game. None of this will be a factor vs Rios though, at the end of the day Pac is still top 2 p4p fighter H2H IMO and just way above Rios.

Just to add, this fickle mindset by simpletons who aren't capable of analysing boxing past numbers is the same reason why some people actually think Garcia would trouble Floyd. IMO Amir Khan gives Floyd much more problems than Garcia, Khan has height, reach and speed. Garcia has absolutely nothing that can trouble Floyd, he has Margarito like speed without the size advantage. But people only see Garcia winning fights, Khan getting ktfo.
Click to expand...

I used to think, especially after he beat Judah, that Khan would be a bit of a challenge for Floyd for same points.
The only thing Khan has over Danny other than the physical advantages (i.e. height, length) is speed, but again, as of now Khan's speed will be thoroughly used against him if he and Floyd fight.

Floyd stops him within 6 rds.

And to add, Garcia does basically everything better than Khan:

Head movement
Maintaining distance
Somewhat nuetrailzing his opponents best weapon
Durability/Chin
Power
Bodywork
IQ

Symphenyceo · Oct 31, 2013

When people dont stand infront of him people say he slipped some. This was the case after jmm 2 fight. He was considered to be on the downslide, but then went on to fight some flatfooted guys and became prime again. He has lost a step again because the guys simply didnt stand infront of him. He'll be prime again against rios.

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I personally don't think Pac has lost a step

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I personally don't think Pac has lost a step

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