What if Frazier and Ali fought in the 60s?

He was asked because Alis corner said it was broken in round one....no other reason. Of course round one became round two.

There is no reason to believe it happened in round one or two except alis camp said it happened. All the physical evidence points to round 12.

 

Foxy and Houdini are having a contest to see who's the bigger blowhard...

:fight

 

Maybe he broke his jaw in second and then made it worse in 12th with that big right hand and thats why the blood started to come out!

 

No attention is given to the jaw after round two or after round 11. Ali had a doctor in his corner. Alis jaw is broken and....the doctor does nothing? Noone in the corner goes near Alis jaw? Makes no sense to me nor to every trainer Ive ever spoken with concerning it.

 

Blood is not a prequisite of indicating a broken jaw, its a common sign but not an absolute certainty.

Ali himself said the pain was not that bad until later, as another poster has said a punch in the last round may have worsened the break, causing the appearance of blood.
Where is the physical evidence that it happened in round 12?

Your contention that it did means that Ali, Wali Youngblood,Angelo Dundee, and Ferdie Pacheco all lied .
For me to accept that you have to produce more than opinion, and your interpretation of body language.
It isn't that important to me either way . However it does seem vitally important to you,and that makes me wonder why?

 

Physical evidence is first blood in the 12th and the immediate defensive posture Ali took in round 12. Where is your evidence of Alis claim that the break occurred in the first two rounds?

So now faced with my evidence you change your opinion....now the jaw is damaged in round one or is it round two then broken in round 12. Thats possible but again why no attention to the jaw at the end of round two or at the end of round 12.

A jagged bone break like what Ali had...with someone punching it...would more than likely produce blood.

 

I am still waiting for evidence that Alis jaw was broken in round one or two.

The reason Alis version was discounted 40 years ago is just for this reason....there is no evidence that it occurred during that time.

All evidence points to round 12 as the deciding round. Blood formed in Alis mouth and Alis fighting posture changed as soon as that right hand landed like in no other point in the fight.

Norton not knowing Alis jaw was broken at fights end lends great credibility that it did not occur until round 12. Certainly he would have noticed if it had occurred at the bouts beginning rather during its last minute.

Watch the fight...the video really is the best evidence in of itself.

All this is very old news.

 

Still no evidence of your claim.

What you are doing is revisionism. This controversy played out 40 years ago and after discussions and looking at the evidence noone thought Alis camps version was true.

If the jaw break happened early that blood Cosell saw in round 12 Norton would have seen early. If the jaw was broken in round one or is it two ali would have fought much more defensive trying to avoid another punch to that broken jaw. Norton would have been much more liable to notice something was wrong with Alis mouth/jaw......quite obviously.

So where is your evidence?

 

I haven't read all the posts so forgive me if I'm repeating what others have said.
A poster on You-Tube showed the jaw break occured at (I'm not sure of this) at something like the 2:47 second of round two. I watched the video and it seems like the 'shot' came at that time. When my buds and I watched the fight live years ago, we were wondering beyond round 3 why Ali was so lethargic. Pretty obvious in my mind that his jaw was broken early on.
Check out the videos; it seems fairly obvious that Muhammad had that jaw broke early.

 

And he took dozens of power shots by 215 pound Ken Norton for 10 rounds on that jaw that was completely broken on one side? without any visible blood until the last minute of the last round? Talking with his corner after round 11 but "Ali can't talk" after round 12?

Again the argument as to when Alis jaw was broken was settled 40 years ago.

Ali trained poorly for the fight, was at a party the night before and was confused and thrown off rhythm my Norton's herky jerky style.

The video you saw Ferdie Pacheco himself was commenting...of course he would say the break came early. Remember he first said the break happened in round one then changed it to round two.

 

Outside of losing the first round to round to Mathis, Joe broke Buster down and swept the rest of the fight (unless you want to give Buster the 2nd as well...I wouldn't but some do) in very convincing fashion. Ali was Frazier's best opponent, so it seems easy to call that the best Frazier...and yes, I am sure most (many convinced merely by Ali's name alone-no meaning you!) would agree with you (but, majority, does not equal fact)....But I agree with Dave, Quarry I/mathis time frame for Joe's peak!

 

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