Ward vs a prime Mario Veit

James Toney wasn't at SMW for longer than he was at MW.

James Toney was at MW for 3 years, and he had 21 fights at the weight.

He spent just less then 2 years at SMW, where he had 12 fights at the weight.



Michael Nunn also wasn't at SMW longer than he was at MW.

Nunn was at MW for 6 and a half years, and he had 37 fights at the weight.

He was at SMW for 4 years, where he had 14 fights at the weight.



Roy was also at MW for longer than he was at SMW.

Roy spent 3 and a half years at MW, and he had 20 fights at the weight.

He spent just over 3 years at SMW, where he had 10 fights at the weight.

 

Bika wasn't top 10 back then. Bika gets ranked top 10 now because he has been competitive against world class opponents for years now. However, he has never been elite, nor at the top of the division.

You put way too much emphasis on the undefeated aspect of a guy like Braehmer. Defeated or not, doesn't make him better or worse than he is, which is good, and just beneath world class. Unless you think winning a belt automatically makes a guy world class.

Some of those youngins may end up with better resumes than Veit, who knows. A little longevity and world class win or so is probably all it'll take.

As for the rest regarding the time spent at smw, etc. I'll have to take your word for it. But I don't think it coincidence those guys were almost always on the way to, or ended up at, another division. All I know is that traditionally, smw does not have the prestige of mw or lhw, nor in fact, the prestige it itself holds now.

 

Can't sense if there is sarcasm involved or not, but the comments and poll results speak less to the reality of the situation, and more to the trolling tendencies associated with the anonymity of the poll.

Ward is an elite, top p4p fighter. Veit was not even world class.

Ward has beaten the elite of his division. And although Veit did attempt to fight the elite, he was waxed by Calzaghe 2x when he did.

Ward is unanimously ranked as the #1 of his division. Veit was only ranked by the wbo, and was clawing his way up those ranks at the same time Darrin Morris was moving up those ranks. And Darrin Morris was dead.

To their credit,the wbo has come a long way since then.

 

Good post Des.

With regards to the time spent in each division, you don't have to take Bailey's word for it.

My stats are 100% accurate.

 

The whole Darrin Morris fiasco was a complete joke.

The WBO had no respect whatsoever when Joe held his belt.

 

And if a long run of WBO defences makes Calzaghe an ATG, then so is Arthur Grigorian.

 

Joe was great fighter, and he was proud of his belt, and his number of defences. Fair play to him, but it was a Mickey Mouse belt back then. The Ring magazine didn't even have a ratings system for it.

 

Didn't see those stats. Thanks for posting. I knew something din't seem right, just couldn't be arsed.

 

Can't believe this is still going on Veit was nothing more than a journeymen !

 

An old post below where bits will have changed but here -

Where you have written for the WBO vs limited competition.
I just wanted to highlight some details to you.
The SMW divisions first world champs were WBC 1988, WBA 1987, IBF 1984 & WBO 1988.
Now for a start it is a new division so no belt has any more prestige than the other as they were all started at a similar time. So the WBO SMW title has no less prestige than the others.
Consider also that the WBO at SMW has been involved in 4 unification bouts.
The IBF has been involved in 2
The WBA in 3
WBC in 4 also
This shows that the WBO has been as willing to make top fights at SMW as much as any other governing body.

Now look at the list of champs in each and who they defended against and you can see that the WBO SMW title has produced the best defences overall better than all of the other govening bodies in this particular weight division so far.
Consider how much critism Bute gets now for his IBF defences.
Consider M Beyer defending his WBC title against 26-14-5 fighter who was coming off of a win against a 0-2-0 fighter
Or that Mundine when defending the WBA title against a 24-13-5 fighter who was the same fighter that WBC champ Beyer was defending against above.

People bring up Eubank who helped mould the belt that was good enough to give T Hearns a slice of history making. Out of Eubanks 18 WBO SMW title fights 14 of those fights were against fighters who were, had been or became top 10 SMWs. One was a unification and another was against the undefeated former IBF SMW champ (relinquished his title). In fact 6 of the fighters he faced had been or became world champs

You are right, that is an odd situation, but consider also that when E Morales was WBC FW champ, he was able to defend his title against E Croft who hadnt fought for over 3 years and was coming off 3 losses, in fact he was 1-5 in his last 6 fights. So I think its unfair to comment on one belt which is of a similar age to the other SMW titles

Its not the belt its the fighters and any fighter that beats Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Veit, Brewer, Mitchell, Lacy, Bika, Kessler who were all at some point SMW champs, all top 10 rated when beaten and 3 of which had their 0s taken by Calzaghe.
If you work out how many fighters were top 10 rated and how many became top 10 rated after Calzaghe beat them he fought 22 SMW title fights and 15 were or became top 10 rated. I havent included Ferreyra who had been top 10 rated before fighting Calzaghe

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, Thats very good but even better when you note Calzaghes LHW career, because as a career total it becomes

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Calzaghe has the best SMW resume ever, but the fighter with the next best SMW resume, Eubank was also WBO champ. In fact Collins in SMW title fights beat undefeated SMW champ Eubank, beat him again in a return and twice beat N Benn. Thats 4 very good wins in a short reign and arguably 4 better wins than any active SMW today

 

Where are those rankings from?

What makes Braehmer world class? Reasonable opposition doesn't make a guy world class. World class opposition does.

Who would Veit beat that would make him top 10 today? Why wasn't he even top 10 back then? He may have the gaudy record and a couple of ok wins, but if his history were to remain intact, he wouldn't have fought any of today's relevant fighters either before his title shot.

Could you see Ward fighting a guy like that at this point in time? Surely you see the difference.

The prestige started growing for smw long before Ward. Calzaghe was still champ. Important fights started getting made.

A fight may come with prestige, but it doesn't always translate into the division as a whole. That kind of interest can come and go, and often does after the must see fight is over, if there is nothing to sustain it. Which is the reason why smw grew. There have been long stretches with worthy fights to see.

 

The wbo wasn't recognized as a legit title to be unified back when Calzaghe won it. That translates to one could be THE unified champ without even knowing what the wbo was.

Now, I think we can all agree there are too many belts, and all their values have been diminished, but the wbo was not nearly as sought after as the other, recognized belts of the time. As I said earlier, it has come a along way.

Again, where are those rankings from? 17 of 24 top ranked by what entity?

Either way, where were they ranked when they fought Calzaghe. Because if they weren't top 10 ranked when they fought Calzaghe, he either fought them either too early, or too late, no? Especially if they were title defenses.

 

nobody gets away from mario's jab, nobody.