Ali's defense over rated, but power under rated?

yep

 

Ali had small hands with protruding knuckles, which could pose him serious problems when combined with his great speed. There aren't many extended bouts which show him consistently unloading throughout with full venom. He had to ration his power with some discrepancy.

There was usually a cumulative effect. Otherwise, he might unload a dazzling combination with one singularly hard right hand as the intended sleeper or deterrent.

With less resistant opponents like Bob Foster and Richard Dunn, individual punches were producing the knockdowns.

Of his 19 wins and three defeats which went the distance, I suspect his most sustained display of power was in one of his more obscure bouts, the 15 round decision over Mac Foster in Tokyo. He'd had over three months off since Blin, and a weight of 226 suggests he hadn't trained especially hard, which may actually have spared his hands. He didn't appear to be having any trouble with his fists in that one.

For stoppage wins, it clearly seems his punching power peaked for Foreman. George has rated Muhammad's power in Kinshasa highly. In reviews of the footage, it looks to me as though Ali could have stopped him as early as round six, and he's widely attributed as announcing that to his corner after the fifth round was over.

His defense was overrated, but he did protect his head fairly well against Berbick, and slipped under and beside shots well on the way forward with Bugner, Blue Lewis and Mac Foster. Shavers surprised him with underrated hand speed, combined with an 80 inch reach. Earnie was no short armed Jerry Quarry or Floyd Patterson.

 

In my opinion anyone who says Ali's defense is over rated is completely *******s!? It is under rated!? He was practically impossible to catch with any regularity!? Henry Cooper May not have been considered any greats shakes at world level but that left hook was a great punch and Henry was under rated himself certainly in terms of British heavies - IMO an old washed up Cooper was still good enough to beat a young Bugner but got stung by gangsters behind the scenes and Cooper gave Ali a damn good fight in the second fight - and Wepner!?? That was no knockdown Wepner blatantly stood on Ali's foot there! Will have to review the Bonavena thing but from memory that was another thing where - yeah Ali ended up on his ass but again no knockdown?

And Ali's power was what it was I think - enough fighters have said that he could pop when he wanted to and when he sat down on his punch - but because he didn't tend to do it for 80% of the fight people were startled when he did properly put his eye of the tiger into his punches - think it was Liston who said something like "that guy wasn't meant to be able to punch??"

 

Would you elaborate on the underlined part please?

 

Ali had decent power. You dont generate a lot of power when your dancing around on your toes.
Same applies to Holyfield.

 

Yes. Interesting mention of Holy. both fighters top echelon power
being questioned and they have stoppage wins over the three baddest dudes in the history of the game respectively.

 

First off, again, I think Ali was the greatest HW ever especially given the fact that we never saw him summer 67 - summer 70.
IMO he broke all the rules both on offense and defense.
He could bob and move, avoid most big shots with his savvy, the movement was his defense but...he was never a prototypical defensive example. Never had any defense on the inside, except for holding. The really great defensive fighters, Pepp, Griffith, Benitez, to name a few could stay inside and dictate a variety of missed shots from their opponents.
Offensively, he was the same 'rule-breaker'. He had the savvy, the 'smooth' to dictate fights. The jab was HOF! The straight right could stiffen and hurt almost anyone. It was the culmination of his blows that took people out. **** on the Liston KO, not worth mentioning. It was a culmination of punches and George being gassed that led to the Zaire stoppage. Has anyone ever considered this fact? He had NO left hook!
Name one fight where he EVER hurt anyone with a left hook (perhaps excepting some of his bums in the 70's)
Not dissing Ali at all, just that he had that special 'something' that could take out anyone in his prime with his uncomparative skills.

 

His defence could NEVER be underestimated.

His power? What power? It was only down to handspeed. The guys that were mesmerised by his speed went down, those who weren't didn't.

 

Agreed.

 

Remember that if you talk about Ali you have to comment two versions, Ali from the 60´s and Ali from the 70´s.
Ali from the 60´s was the fastest ever and almost impossible to hit, a master in avoiding punches, his dancing was his defense with great reflexes, so that verson is a master in defense.
The Ali from the 70´s was a much more stationary man and not as fast but still enough to avoid the most. The fights after thrilla in Manilla is not his best, he was over the hill you could say. The Berbick fight and the Holmes fight is not representative for his legacy, can´t judge anything from those fights, he was not even a shadow of his prime in those.
It was no jab that floored Liston in the second fight, it was a right hand and Liston runs into it, that is why the power is enough to floor him, collission. Wham , Bam! ten and out!

 

corrections:
1) Liston was not a big man, he was smaller than Ali
2) Regarding Foreman:
http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=211663

clarifications:

*) Ali got a chin only after his speed was gone. There was never a version of Ali that had both chin and speed

*) Liston probably took a dive in their 1st fight also

 

red part is crap.

Ali from the 60's was not the fastest ever (Corrie Sanders & Floyd Patterson were faster)

Ali from the 60's was hit indeed by both Doug Jones and Henry Cooper.
A man whom a past prime Floyd Patterson managed to avoid getting hit by and KOd him fair and square (in contrast with Ali).

Ali from the 60's was heavily hit to the body by slow ass George Chuvalo so much that he peed blood & got hospitalized after their fight while the "loser" Chuvalo went to dance with his wife.

Ali from the 60's claimed to have been blinded by Sony Liston. Was it caused by Liston's failure to connect with his face?

Wlad Klit outside of my top 15 but he would have beaten any version of Ali.
Ali would have went life and death with the likes of Greg Page, Carl Williams, Tim Witherspoon, Duane Bobbick and possibly Mike Weaver as well.
Tony Tucker would have outpointed him if not worse.

 

Of course I agree with this post and with everything in your previous post which I did not correct.