Why Has Scotland Never Had a Heavyweight?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Nov 9, 2013.


  1. thistle1

    thistle1 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    selectively harsh mcvey, McGoldrick, Abrew, and Ken Shaw were all very capable & noted fighters, fringe contenders and world classed!
     
  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    McGoldrick was light heavy .
    None of the three were ever remotely world class.
     
  3. thistle1

    thistle1 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    mcgoldrick by my measure was l-hw your right, but he did fight a lot of HWs such were the times...

    TOP big men from MW up were expected too, the money and fame resting there, mcgoldrick fought some of the best there and Abrew was a respected and noted fighter and Ken Shaw better yet, and the biggest of the 3 too. as I said Shaw beat all 3 of his American fringe contenders and one of them swam with the TOP HWs in wins & loses... so that is respected victory as was some of his Brit, S. African and Euro company.
     
  4. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Scots are a genetic cul de sac.
     
  5. Anubis

    Anubis Boxing Addict

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    Yeah, my father got rickets when he was a kid from lack of sunlight. Those wee little people just don't get enough nutrients from the sky. Then again, what's up with the pygmies? [Or maybe "down" would be more appropriate terminology in these cases.]

    Always impressed with their Highland Games competitions though, where they swing heavy weights hooked through their kilt covered genitals. [What's the current record in that event?] Glad they finally expanded that event so females could also participate.

    Waiting for some interloper like Tsunami Kobayashi and Sonya "Black Widow" Thomas to finally upset their jingoistic conceit by winning the male and female haggis eating competition in trashing the existing haggis eating records. [Might take longer for outsiders to overtake them in the drinking contests sponsored by Freddie Crawler's Scotch, however.]

    My sister and sister-in-laws are really turned on by the thought of Scottish ferret legging swollen salami and bull testicles hanging under those kilts. My girlfriend says she'll stay with me if I'll likewise ferret leg her pets, but I told her to move to Scotland while I join a monastery. I try to remind her that genital enlargement through ferret legging is unnatural, like steroids, and she could run the risk of contracting rabies so many years after the Chunnel was completed, but there's just no deterring her.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    The best of the three, Shaw was stopped by Freddie Mills in ONE ROUND.
    It's not about fighting some of the best ,it's about beating some of the best and NONE of them did.


    Bottom line NONE were world class
     
  7. thistle1

    thistle1 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Shaw suffered a cut in that round that was worse than that guy that near lost his ear...

    that injury hampered his career and the same wound on his upper lip was opened a few more times there after... the same happened in the Mills rematch though it wasn't until the 6th round, it's well documented and it troubled everyone involved the luck that Shaw should be forced to retire again with precisely the same circumstances.

    Mills stopped a few of his opponents owing to wild looping chopping down type punches, pulling and tearing the point of impact. see Denis Andries and Mills footage to see the kind of punches he threw. But Shaw was a good fighter.
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I repeat McGoldrick, Abrew ,and Shaw were NEVER WORLD CLASS.
     
  9. rossco666

    rossco666 Guest

    You trying to tell me the other fans in Scotland arnt fanatical about their club. Go and watch an Edinburgh derby then come back and talk. Celtic and Rangers are full of glory hunters and biggots, how many of them truly are football fans? Supporters of clubs like Partick and Inverness are no less passionate about their club than any old firm fan. Its a lot easier to support Rangers and Celtic, iv'e no respect for those two clubs.
    Sure some of the smaller clubs need the away gates of Celtic and the clubs in debt like Hearts the rest don't or don't in a big way. Anyway what's that got to do with how fanatical fans are in scotland about football . Per population Scotland's always been one of the biggest football fans in Europe. The SP is the 9th most supported league in Europe just now, this is without Rangers and a loss in gates from all the other clubs. There was a time when the SPL was the most supported league in Europe in terms of per population.
     
  10. thistle1

    thistle1 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If their ranked, their world classed.

    All these fighters were National Champions when that actually meant something,

    Top 10 in Britain when it was the second most respected place in the world for boxing and the Lonsdale Belt was held in near the same esteem as a world championship belt.

    Ranked in the Ring Ratings in or outside the Top 10, when the Ring Ratings were rating & classing ALL the Top fighters in the world.

    not like todays Alphetbet ratings, with world title fights in 16 fights.

    Man you've got a funny idea of world classed.

    If you honestly believe that only World Champs and the Top 10 world ratings equals world classed you are sadly mistaken.

    there haven been times in Boxing where the TOP men from the Leading Nations were the real deal. To think only 11 fighters per divisions sealed it up all over the world is quite juvenile in your thinking and understanding of what was once Rich times in the quality, QUANTITY and calibre of fighters!
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    As I'm 65 , I think I have an understanding of what domestic titles mean ,and have meant world wide through the years.

    We are talking about HEAVYWEIGHTS ,so let us confine this discussion to them.

    The British heavyweight title has never meant anything to the US, in fact for the majority of my life span British heavyweights have been the objects of ridicule in the States.

    Tommy Farr,Lennox Lewis and to a lesser extent Frank Bruno have redressed this to some degree.
    The vast majority of British heavyweight champions were not of sufficient class to make a credible challenge to the world champion and consequently did not fight for it.

    This also applies to many of the European heavyweight champions.

    The three men you named were not even good enough to win the British Title, let alone the European.

    They would have been hard pressed to get positions as sparring partners for the world champions of their eras.

    Lonsdale belts have always been highly prized by those domestic fighters who won them , but they mean jack **** outside the UK.

    The statement I underlined is LUDICROUS.

    I'll tell you what I consider qualifies a boxer as world class.
    1.Being ranked in the world top ten by a reputable organization ,or publication
    2.Being a European champion, with wins over world class opponents
    3.Being a national champion ,with wins over world class opponents.

    NONE OF THOSE THREE QUALIFY ON ANY COUNT.

    Now lets look at their records.

    Ken Shaw, the best of the three.
    40 fights , 23 wins , so just over 50% wins .Kos 5, kod by 9. ko% 12.5% Best opponents;
    Earl Walls Ltko3
    Jack Gardner,[ who was having his 12 th fight], L tko7
    Johnny Williams,Ltko8
    Freddie Mills a LHVY L tko1
    Freddie Mills Ltko7
    Jack London W 12[ London never beat a world class opponent and was at 34 in decline]
    Jack London Ltko8 London was 32
    Jack London L tko8 London 32
    Bill Gilliam who later made the ratings briefly in the US W8
    Gilliam was 8-1-0 just starting out.
    Ollie Tandberg L10
    Bruce Wood**** who was having his 15 th fight L tko5

    11 FIGHTS 2 wins 1 over a novice 1 over a 34 year old in decline, 9 losses ,2 to a lhvy ,all by stoppage!
    The only title Shaw ever won was the vacant Scottish Area title. to appreciate how strong the competition was for that, his opponent was Jock Porter whose record at the time was 4-1-1.
    Porter finished his career on 13 fights winning just 5 and being kod 7 times!

    Now lets get to the real motive behind your misguided lauding of Shaw ,two fights with Bert Gilroy these were defences of the Scottish Area title . Gilroy was a 5'8.52 supermiddle/ lhvy and never beat a world class heavyweight,its arguable if he ever beat a world class fighter of any weight.
    SO NO WINS OVER A WORLD CLASS HEAVYWEIGHT OPPONENT .
    NO BRITISH TITLE WINS.
    NO EUROPEAN TITLE WINS .
    NO COMMONWEALTH TITLE WINS.

    An Area title, won over a 4-1-1 opponent for a vacant crown ,and two defences of it over a Light heavyweight.
    A barely 50% winning record ,with 9 stoppage losses on it.

    EQUALS A DOMESTIC AREA LEVEL FIGHTER


    NO WORLD CLASS STANDING FROM ME ,OR ANYONE ELSE WHO IS NOT BLINDLY PARTISAN .

    Manuel Abrew
    80 fights 55 wins, kod7 times.
    Abrew's best opponents were:
    Tommy Farr L ko 3
    Tommy Farr L tko6
    Ben Foord L ko5
    Ben Foord L Dsq Went down without being hit .:oops:
    Jack London L ko6
    Len Harvey L tko14
    SEVEN FIGHTS OVER REASONABLE OPPOSITION = NO WINS STOPPED IN SIX OF THEM, THROWN OUT IN THE OTHER
    Never fought for any title of any description.
    Never beat a fighter of even remotely world class.


    EQUALS A JOBBING HAM AND EGGER.

    Jim McGoldrick
    45 Fights,20 wins,19 losses, ko'd 10 times, just breaks the 50% winning percentage then.

    Apart from the fact that McGoldrick was a LHVy, he was never good enough to be considered for a british ttile shot let alone a European or World title .
    Best opponents.
    Victor McGlaglen. L rtd 5
    Bombadier Billy Wells L rtd7

    THAT's IT!


    McGoldirck fought for the VACANT Scottish Area Title against Pat Breslin who had the fearsome record of 0-3-0
    I bet those Yanks **** themselves when they heard about him:lol:
    McGoldrick LOSTa 20 rds dec! They fought again for the area title, Breslin the "Champion "was now an impressive 2-4-0 but the crowd was so unruly the fight was cancelled, and they never bothered to rematch them.
    Did anybody care?

    EQUALS A SECOND/THIRD RATE JOURNEYMAN

    You make the assertion that these three men were world class,
    and then you have the nerve to call my understanding of the term "juvenile"?:-(

    Thistle, I have many Scottish friends, I'm going to see the Degale fight with one Saturday, he is a rabid Rangers fan , and roots for who ever is playing England , but even he would not be so blinkered and absurdly biased as you have proven yourself to be.

    Now off you go, into that room ,there is a loaded revolver on the desk ,we will wait outside until we hear it go off before we enter.:patsch
     
  12. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie banned

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    You've just answered your own, and my question haven't you? 9th isn't " the most fanatically supported " is it?

    As for the bigotry between the 2 big Glasgow clubs, I could give a ****, as I'm an atheist.

    They are better at football than all the rest, as evidenced by their respective records.
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Any chance of getting back on topic? It is a boxing :bbb site F.
     
  14. rossco666

    rossco666 Guest

    I't was only as far back as 2011 that the SPL was the best attended league per head of population in Europe.

    You mention the old firm being more 'fanatical' about football than the other Scottish clubs so of course i'm going to bring up bigotry. Bigotry is the only thing the old firm are more fanatical about than the other scottish clubs. They are not any better supporters. I couldn't give a **** if your an atheist, your getting told the truth here.

    Lets keep it boxing. English people should't stick there nose in and talk Scottish football politics. Now **** off :finger
     
  15. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie banned

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    Well bully for you, as an English person who subsidises your free prescriptions, I'll poke my nose into any fvcking Scottish politics if I want to. So you **** off and stop poncing from us.

    Who first mentioned " fanatical Scottish football supporters " on this thread? It certainly wasn't me. If they're that good let any of them and their supporters come to the English premiership, only to get relegated in a season.