Hagler's jab was fantastic. I watched the Mugabi fight not long and thought Hagler's lefts looked terrible but thought to myself "could that be the best jab in boxing, ever?". The jab will always lose effectiveness against someone with a different stance (orthodox/unorthodox), though. If his left jab had been as good, I think he could have imposed that on just about anybody.
I like Whittakers jab better myself, I tend to favour a more varied jab rather than a heavy jab. I like your point on the southpaw/orthodox aspect. I think this favours Hagler even more, so it is easier for him to take away Robinson's left jab.
I think it means that the jabs will play a lesser part overall. Robinson liked to circle to his left, so he will likely try to get around Hagler's right to land a left hook and perhaps a right behind. His movement will probably be very much be about getting this angle. If he can't, and starts moving to his right instead... well, then is when the war starts.
Sure he would. Who do you think controls those exchanges though? The best footwork Hagler came up against was versus Leonard, Duran and maybe the inferior Seales (allowing for the Hearns fight plan). Even the inferior Seales troubled him with nothing like the advantages Robinson has in speed, power, combination punching, ring generalship.
I still think that Robbi could use the jab as a feint ... throw it short to get Hagler to counter, step back and use the left hook to counter the counter. Hagler's jab was great and yes, I'd agree that Pernell's was better, as was Tommy's for my money, but I don't see the match up being decided on a battle of jabs. In taking away Robbi's jab, Hagler would make Robbi seek alternative methods of engaging Hagler. I just think that a peak 154/155 Robbi was THAT good.
Ok, imagine the Hagler who hounded and brutalized Thomas Hearns. Now picture Ray Robinson in Tommy's place. What could he have possibly done different to avoid getting stopped? That Hagler is the p4p GOAT, period.
Listen here people robinson was beatable at middleweight if far lesser fighters can beat robinson at middleweight, then hagler surely can. End!
As great as Tommy was, he didn't have great recuperation ... that is, if you had him hurt, Tommy could freeze up and not see out the round/fight. Robbi was much the superior to Tommy in his ability to survive perilous moments. Robbi was made of much sterner stuff with his proven ability to take punishment to the body and fire right back, in addition to Robbi having much better legs than Tommy. Tommy's legs were jelly against Hagler, when he attempted to use his footwork to box momentarily, after initially being shook up, which is where Steward's claims have some support, I guess. I put it to you that this Hagler, would've been troubled against Robbi coming in to engage in the same manner. Hagler's success came from his being shorter than Hearns, coming in with his chin tucked and smothering Hearns' range. Tommy's power came when he could keep you on the end of the right hand, or whipping the left hook from mid-range to head and body. Hagler didn't allow Tommy to get his feet set properly to firstly deliver his full power into the shots and secondly, Hagler didn't allow Tommy the distance or time to crack the chin consistently, in addition to Tommy hurting his hand. I don't see Robbi needing nearly as much space as Tommy to get off and if drawn into a punch up, Robbi's faster of hand and harder of punch than Hagler. I think that in 1985, Hagler's handspeed and headmovement has faded enough for the faster Robbi to outshoot him in a mid-range brawl. If Hagler attempts to smother him, Robbi has the lateral movement and the backfoot style to take the step back, pivot sharply and catch Hagler coming in with a check hook, or to slide right and fire the right hand lead, which is one of the best punches to catch a southpaw with. Robbi's accurate enough to tag Hagler enough times to get respect and is more fluid than Hearns in firing off combinations from body to head. As great as Hagler's beard is, I think that Robbi's looping hooks will catch the floating ribs and the right or left can certainly check Hagler's chin in a flurry of KO punches. I'd strongly contend your assertion that this Hagler is the p4p GOAT. This version of Hagler wasn't as bouncy on his toes or as quick of headmovement, reflex and as sharp with the jab as the Hagler of 3 years prior IMO.
Hagler was beatable at middleweight If lesser fighters can beat Hagler at middleweight, then Robinson surely can. End! I agree with Robinson being beatable, but this train of logic isn't persuasive in the slightest.
I still have to go with Ray Robinson, in a close decision win. Too many variables with Marvin Hagler, when fighting a slick-mover who take a punch.
Robinson was most verastile. Hagler may have had a better chin but not by much and Robinson outguns him in the rest of the departments. Robbie wins by a close decision. If Duran could nearly do it, Ray would. The boxing, counterpunching, Marvelous Marvin, or the old Marvelous Marvin who relied on his chin to close the gap to KO them, there is no difference. Robinson wins.
Hagler had nice boxing skills, a great jab especially from the Southpaw Stance. His quickness was underated in his prime. The images of him plodding around after Ray Leonard are not to me the real Hagler. He had good footwork in his prime. I think Marvin does enough things well to beat Robinson at middleweight. He can box with him and he can punch hard enough to get Ray`s respect. I think Hagler had the advantage in physical strength. Switching stances and using that powerjab to keep Robinson from getting into his groove. Neither man is stopping the other if there was a knockdown I believe Robinson would be the one getting dropped. He wouldn`t stay down for long. Hagler by close Decision. Maybe 9-6 or 8-7
