SRL (New Orlean's) vs Duran (Montreal)

Impossible to answer, because without Montreal, New Orleans would not have happened.
In other words, without Ray realising that he fought more Duran's fight in Montreal, he would not have made the adjustments that he did in New Orleans.


So for me, same result as in Montreal. Ray was already at his best in Montreal; he could have fought smarter, but he could not have fought better, if you know what I mean.

 

Ray probably wins a 9-6 decision over Roberto in a thriller.

 

It's funny because I just watched New Orleans again last night. New Orleans was definitely closer than I think is generally remembered, but I definitely think Ray's movement and complete lack of fear got to Roberto a bit. Well, a lot.

Once the mugging started, I think it was all Duran could take really. He built his considerable reputation on machismo, and here is this ****y kid that he beat in the first fight clowning him. Couldn't handle it.

 

Weird censorship. I didn't know c o c k y was an offensive term. :roll:

 

Montreal Duran would beat any version of Leonard, Viruet did the same **** Leonard did in the second fight with all the clowning and all and he got his ass beat regardless, of course Viruet isnt on the same level as Leonard but Duran of New Orleans was nowhere near the same fighter as Duran of Montreal or the Duran of the Viruet fights.

 

Montreal Duran, in fact, the 134 pound Duran of DeJesus III, defeats any version of SRL we ever saw at 147 [just as Armstrong defeated Ross and Hank's other initial challengers at WW while weighing within the LW limit].

Look at how Ray destroyed Dave Green, how he fights in his bouts prior to that, then watch Duran's performances leading up to Montreal, especially his highly motivated redemption for Zeferino Gonzalez against Joseph Nsubuga.

Ray Leonard was never in less than top physical condition for any match throughout his career, but Roberto certainly was in lousy shape against Zeferino at nearly 150, and after training only three weeks for that one, was utterly humiliated as Ray watched from ringside following his own first round blowout over Andy Price. [I suspect Zeferino Gonzalez may have been intended as something of an early primer for a potential Duran-Hearns match at WW, to give Roberto some work against a lesser six footer in that division, just as Nsubuga was a lesser SRL in stylistic template.]

Three and a half months later, a very embarrassed and pissed off Duran showed up under the WW limit at 146-1/2 to open 1980 against Nsubuga [RIP-May 4, 2013, age 57] with Angelo Dundee providing ringside television analysis and commentary on CBS with Gil Clancy, while Dick Stockton called the blow by blow action. [It was always extremely enjoyable to hear Gil and Angie converse with each other when they were paired on the air, with all the knowledge and experience between them, and both were old hands at ringside broadcasts also.]

Stoneface took on Stonehands with only a professional record of 16-1-0 behind him after less than five years of punch for pay experience, and Duran was only his second scheduled ten rounder. But he did have a pair of eighth round knockouts under his belt, and was competing in international amateur tournaments over a decade prior to Duran, winning his first Gold Medal at the East and Central Africa Games in 1971 as a WW. Four years later, he was winning Bronze, Silver and Gold Medals at MW. Trimmed back down to a rock solid 147 for his professional career, Nsubuga was 25 years old when he faced Duran, with far more skill and experience than a 16-1-0 professional record would suggest. It showed.

Duran, Ray Arcel and Freddie Brown weren't counting on the trench-fighting SRL of Montreal in Montreal during training, they were preparing for the SRL of New Orleans in Montreal, and Nsubuga was their dress rehearsal for how SRL later actually did box Duran in New Orleans. Clancy, Dundee, Arcel and Brown weren't the only legendary trainers involved in Duran-Nsubuga. Joseph had a guy in his corner too, somebody named Futch. The Ugandan transplant to Scandinavia carried out Eddie's instructions to the letter.

Nsubuga utilized the template many fans expected SRL to apply in Montreal. He proved to be strong, tough, fast, skilled and mobile. In fact, he was stylistically the closest thing to what Duran and his team could have expected from SRL. Joseph applied the lateral movement expected of the American in Montreal.

Of course, Duran and company didn't expect to be able to stop Ray in Montreal, certainly not after Palomino. Training down to 144 for the showdown in Canada reflected that they expected a battle to the final bell. But Nsubuga does show how they'd have dealt with the SRL of New Orleans in Montreal if in peak condition.

Keep in mind that as New Orleans actually did transpire, a grotesquely miss-toned and rapid weight loss drained Duran would have only been down 78-75, 78-75 and 77-75 on the three official cards after eight rounds [79-74 on UPI's unofficial card]. So an ill prepared Duran's down by not more than four rounds [five, according to UPI], with seven rounds remaining.

In New Orleans, SRL wasn't able to hurt him. [In fact, Ray was never able to stun Duran in any of their three bouts.] Montreal proved the reverse was clearly not true. Put Duran in Montreal shape and preparedness for New Orleans, and those scores are likely closer after eight. SRL was using his legs a lot in their 1980 rematch. Prime condition Duran was extremely efficient at slipping and countering with hard shots to the body when cuties moved into range. Over the championship distance, the Duran of Montreal would spot the SRL of New Orleans the early lead while banking for the later rounds with hard body shot counters when Ray moves in. SRL would slow down enough early enough for El Cholo to overtake him on the cards as their second bout entered the later rounds.

For whatever it's worth, Janks Morton has indicated on camera that he didn't believe Ray would win a second bout against Duran in 1980, but SRL adapted against a sharply diminished and ill prepared Roberto. When Duran showed up for the weigh in at 144 in Montreal, Ray, Janks and Angie were extremely surprised, and very subdued with concern and alarm, because they were counting even then on El Cholo's well publicized appetite as their ally. In New Orleans, Roberto's gastronomic indulgences were finally in SRL's corner.

Angie did point out one key difference between Nsubuga and Ray in terms of execution. SRL had a jab Dundee compared to Pastrano's, and it was a jab SRL used to deck Benitez with. Joseph sort of did hang it out there, but jabs weren't the key to beating prime Duran. Benitez and Hearns were both wise enough and intelligent enough to understand that. Wilfred planned on countering, while Tommy went in bent on the same initiatory long range aggression he and Steward prepared for Cuevas. I don't think either would have succeeded beating Montreal Duran that way, but those would have been more sensible approaches than trying to stick and move to a decision over 15. Duran was too good at slipping and countering to the body for allowing uninterrupted movement through the championship distance. At some stage, standing ground and fighting back would be unavoidable.

 

In the last three rounds of the first fight, SRL staged a pretty impressive comeback and made it pretty close. Duran may have taken the foot off the pedal, but the fact remains that Leonard got into a nice groove of jabbing from the outside, countering his foe with flurries and then stepping out of range. In many ways, New Orleans was an extrapolation of the approach that Leonard adopted in the latter stages of Montreal, and it was utilized by a cold-blooded ******* who wanted to humiliate his opponent in the worst possible way.

It's not lead cinch certain...But I think that version of Leonard isn't allowing Duran to draw him into the trenches, and even if he does, he's not gonna allow Roberto to dictate the terms of engagement quite as easily as was done in the first 12 rounds of their first tilt.

Leonard by close, captivating UD.

 

Man Duran really screwed himself, by quitting in New Orleans, all these years later, that's what people remember him most for..
As far as the thread goes I think the Duran in Montreal wins, against Leonard New Orleans version, but it would be a very close fight..

 

For me nothing comes anywhere near to total humiliation, as that suffered by Leonard when Norris toyed with him, then Comacho beat him up and stopped him.

Karma.

 

It depends, does New Orleans Leonard still fight Duran's fight?