When Gorves was hurt in the 9th round, what did you think when you was watching live?

Discussion in 'British Boxing Forum' started by dellboi94, Nov 26, 2013.



  1. Terminator_X

    Terminator_X Boxing Addict Full Member

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    There is no doubt Groves was in a bit of trouble in the 9th and there is a chance he could have been stopped especially with half the round left, at the same time though Froch looked like he'd punched himself out and could have been stopped too.

    The Stoppage was shockingly early though and Howard Foster clearly was itching to stop the fight in Froch's favour at the first possible opportunity.

    The *******s robbed Groves of a victory by nefarious means. Hearn is corrupt and it wouldn't surprised me if he paid Foster and the Judges to make sure Froch would win, there's some enough evidence to back this up too.

    For example for the Burns vs Beltran fight we had the judge Carlos Ortiz Jr scored the fight to Ricky Burns 115-112 which is a criminal scorecard. A bit of checking reveals that the same judge had also worked Geale vs Barker and scored in favour of Barker...i bet Hearn wined and dined him after that fight and gave him a nice little bonus for it and then made sure he came over to Britain to be a 'friendly' judge for the Burns fight.

    Now for the Groves vs Froch fight we had a judge called Massimiliano Bianco who had the Groves-Froch fight nearly even, once again a bit of checking reveals that the only two fights he judged in 2013 had both been Eddie Hearn shows. Once again a 'Friendly' judge was brought in to make sure of his fighters victory.

    Hearn, Foster, the judges and BBBofC all need need to be investigated and have their financial documents looked at and scrutinized in order to bring the British public back on side of boxing rather then them seeing it as a dirty and corrupt sport.
     
  2. garymcfall

    garymcfall Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I thought he was rocked but nothing that he wouldn't have had a chance of getting through. He wasn't in that big a hole. Give him another ten seconds or so and if he shipped any more big ones there isn't a problem with the stoppage. It was hard to evaluate how hurt he was because the referee never gave him a chance to dig deep really. Real shame for Groves because he fought out of his skin the whole night.
     
  3. Mandanda

    Mandanda SkillspayBills Full Member

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    Watching live i sensed Groves was in desperate waters and sense Froch going in ala Taylor and Bute he just looked to be stepping on the pedal for the first time. The stoppage was early though IMO.

    Groves did what is known as ''firefighting''. He's done this throughout his career when hurt. He's been hurt numerous times over career but many go under radar. He firefights normally quite well.

    In this instance lets go to the initial punch. The right hand to the temple staggers the legs of Groves who looks to hold on. His legs betray him slightly but to his credit he looks to hold and push to keep Froch off. He then ties Froch but Carl works with freehand landing 2-3 short punches inside. They are then separated by Foster and Groves resets and they trade along ropes and then separated again. Froch loads up a ridiculous right hand and Groves slips it but Froch's body follows through sending George into ropes.

    From here we see a left hook cuff the eardrum of Groves and a right hand land through the full guard of Groves. Groves firefights as he does normally but is ping'd with a right hand which momentarily sags the body of Groves. He then lands another right hand through the seam of the full guard and then Groves swings wildly and gets hit with a left hook and right hand.

    Now the worrying thing here is the fact Groves head is being snapped back by these shots but are they enough to stop the fight? IMO no i'd of let it go a little longer as Groves is still trying to fire away but the rolling effect of Groves head to a ref would be worrying it's punches taking his head around not him rolling the shots. Groves head dips forward on the final punch and stays forward albeit Froch half goes pull head and then Foster pulls him under arm. But there's a second there where his head dips down and his arms sag and he looks like he's having trouble getting right glove to chin.

    Then look at the front leg it struggles to find the canvas and he's no doubt IMO on shaky legs hence him falling under the wing of Foster. Then judging by the facial reaction a second after Foster let his head up. Groves looked to be out of it and was fighting like Timothy Bradley against Provodnikov on heart and desire and not wits.

    To sum my post up: He was hurt, He was in IMO real trouble. It should of been allowed to run on a little longer to see if he could ride the storm but he was no doubt in my mind. Hurt and in trouble and honestly he has to blame himself for fire fighting when hurt. He got away with it against lesser fighters.

    He didn't know where he was otherwise IMO he'd of been to looking to escape the clutches of Foster sooner and looking to reset but he wasn't aware of what was going on.

    Froch himself was lucky not to be stopped but in the first round with 15 seconds to go he had a fuller tank and less time in round and kept his poise which is experience and accepting the situation and see out the storm.

    It's something Groves has to learn from. As much as the stoppage was harsh he allowed the referee a ref his trainer claims he had concerns about to make such a decision because he fought fire with fire when hurt. His punches in that sequence all missing btw.

    I will get shot down on this post, Called all sorts but that's my thoughts. Early stoppage but the stoppage was coming he was going to go out on shield like all warriors should but he should of had those few more seconds to see if he could defend himself as the fight moved across the ring but honestly he fought his way into trouble and credit to Carl for seizing the chance and landing good quality punches.
     
  4. DrMo

    DrMo Team GB Full Member

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    I think it was a left hook that started the sequence, about 20seconds before the stoppage.

    Its on the opposite side to the camera but judging by Groves reaction, he was hurt & started trying to clinch.

    He never really recovered, seen several posters who say he was throwing back right near the end, he swang wildy twice, missed & got tagged in return.
     
  5. Mandanda

    Mandanda SkillspayBills Full Member

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    :good He didn't land a punch when they traded and his upperbody was sagging at times which is equally as worrying as a ***** street dance.

    TBH if he was landing and not being hurt he wouldn't of put head down and tried to go to full guard. Defo hurt :deal.
     
  6. Two Shakes

    Two Shakes Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Mandanda
    Thats the first honest and accurate account of what actually happened, that i've seen posted on these boards.
    Good post.
     
  7. Mandanda

    Mandanda SkillspayBills Full Member

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    Thanks mate :good. I've found reading all the forums rather frustrating not only before the fight but during and after. Think it's gotten a tad out of hand and seems to be based on selective memory.

    I've tried to keep posts on the subject to a bare minimum :yep.
     
  8. Mook

    Mook Member Full Member

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    As I watched the fight, I thought very early stoppage but could understand it. I'll return to this and why I was wrong.

    First things first. Froch had been coming on since the seventh (possibly sixth). He hadn't turned the fight around and wasn't getting things his own way by any means, but Groves was clearly flagging at times (and 'at times' is important - Groves also seemed to be able to recover in spurts).

    The scoring was bad, but 5-3 plus the KD was how I and seemingly most people (bar the Groves won every round brigade and the two jusges who had it 4-4) seemed to score it. If we say 3 points is fair and the stoppage was unfair and assume that the ninth was going Froch's way (hard to argue against that, surely?), most would have it Groves two points up with three to go. And that's assuming Froch doesn't get a KD, which seems quite possible. To say Groves was therefore robbed is to assume he was so much further ahead than that - he was winning, no doubt, but that was entirely down to the first half of a 12 round fight. Very important evidence that Groves was on to a win, but not conclusive proof.

    The argument that Froch could have been stopped in the first is incredibly weak. The difference was it was round one: the ref didn't have to consider exhaustion or being caught cold. Whether that's right or not is a moot point, the fact is that any ref worth their salt would react to the damage that the fighters had taken through some of the most torturous rounds of boxing you'd ever see - just look at their faces.

    I'm also interested in Groves' point on allowing him to fight on the inside. I know this will be contetious, but the way he tied up Froch's arm everytime there was an attack was wrong and was clearly a foul which led to Froch's (worse) fouls.

    finally, because I felt that Groves had got more and more desperate in how he was tying up Froch, I was convinced that Groves was on the verge of going. rewatching just the ninth round, I realised that was wrong and the fight shouldn't have been stopped.

    Unfortunately, it was an impossible fight to call at that stage. I think Froch was robbed of his greatest comeback win (against Taylor Froch was losing but had clearly come back in the second half of a far less torrid bout). But Groves could have continued and it's impossible to say he would have been ko-ed - though I do think he would have refused to have taken a sensible knee to regain his head, which would have been his undoing. he certainly came back at other points in previous rounds to suggest he could have survived Froch's will.

    had they finished the fight, though, and either way froch could have retired. he would have won his greatest come back or lost, most probably on points, having shown the willpower to close the gap on a strong young rival in a way that wouldn't have dented a 36-year-old's record.

    also, I don't blame Foster: what a horrible fight to referee at that stage: both boxers in massive batterings, he probably felt he had to stop it at some stage. and Froch could have behaved better: the 'free shot' stuff was ridiculous.
     
  9. Mook

    Mook Member Full Member

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    oops on caught cold, I meant the ref might have considered caught cold in the first, against considering eight rounds of warfare
     
  10. GrandSlam

    GrandSlam Member Full Member

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    Mook and Mandanda, both great posts...seems like after a few days a few sensible viewpoints are coming out!
     
  11. achillesthegreat

    achillesthegreat FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE Full Member

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    Before he was hurt I still felt he had pushed his luck way too much and was in real danger of being Taylor II. When he did get hurt I felt the end was near as he seemed to struggle to compose himself. The reality is he wasn't super hurt yet but falling back and getting a bit wild sways **** refs into believing you can't continue.
     
  12. Mandanda

    Mandanda SkillspayBills Full Member

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    Thanks bro :good. It's been tough reading since Saturday night for sure.
     
  13. Mandanda

    Mandanda SkillspayBills Full Member

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    The whiplash affect scares referee's especially over here. The neck/head being snapped back is a worry so when it happens a few times they now panic due to the pressure there under to get the call right.

    Groves neck was snapped back similarly against Anderson after the KD. Luckily that time the bell saved him. I'm still shocked that to this point in his career he's been allowed to get away with this firefighting mentality. The head swaying isn't a good look at all to referee's.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41KjaWPCsC0

    What people also forget is when Groves is swinging for the fences like that he's also exerting even more energy. I don't buy into the ''Froch looked exhausted'' line neither his body language is always sloppy but i don't see a guy landing clean hard punches and looking to land more like a guy who had sold out in those exchanges. He landed a good 10 punches (inside to mid range) over the course of a 40 second span and the final onslaught of 5-6 punches had power in them and he still wanted to land to Groves body as Foster held onto him.

    Think that's a rather far fetched thought and wishful thinking IMO. Froch of course would be tired but when he saw his man hurt his urgency turned up a notch.

    One thing i will say though. Watch the officials at ringside :lol:. They don't agree with the decision to stop it.
     
  14. tjf81

    tjf81 Active Member Full Member

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    I agree with just about all the posts on here except Solaris post.
     
  15. RODNEY MORASH

    RODNEY MORASH C♯ Sharp or B♭ Flat Full Member

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