SRL (New Orlean's) vs Duran (Montreal)

My presumption is that Ray fights Montreal Duran as he actually did box in New Orleans, and either gets run out of the ring, or slowed down enough by timely slip and counter body shots to force SRL to stand and fight in the later rounds.

Ray did try clowning in Montreal as he did in New Orleans, and El Cholo was disdainful of it. Roberto took far nastier insults from the Viruet brothers [who unlike SRL, spoke Duran's language].

Nobody, NOBODY, not Ray, not DeJesus, EVER got under El Cholo's skin the way Edwin Viruet did. Hell, if the IBHOF is ever serious about promoting a major ticket event during Induction Weekend, put Roberto in an "exhibition" with Ed. Forget about a ringside ambulance and physician, make it a hearse and mortician. [As far as financing and promoting it, I'm sure Duran would be MORE than happy to pony up for just one more chance to punch Ed in the face. In fact, make it a handicap match. I'd imagine the Panamanian would be more than happy to take on both Eddie and Adolf at once, with no referee to interfere. Put it in a steel cage.]

 

Duran (Montreal) only beat Leonard (Montreal) by one point, so "Duran (Montreal) beats *any* SRL" posts are essentially saying that Leonard (Montreal) was the best Leonard possible (unless one takes the position that the scorecards were horribly off. 10 even rounds is ridiculous, but it was certainly (IMO) a fairly even fight).

So the question really is almost, "Was Leonard (New Orleans) better than Leonard (Montreal)? Because if he's better enough to win one round that went to Duran in the first fight, then he wins the decision. I think he was, and he does.

 

Aptly expressed post.

My position is that Ray would lose that one round [and the match in general] through his concession of aggression to Duran. But you've posed a proper question for responders to take sides on.

 

What exactly was the beef between Duran and the Viruet brothers? I know they had history, but I've never really got to the bottom of it.

 

Ummmm Duran beat SRL by more than one round... that scoring didn't indicate how decisive the victory was.. Sure it wasn't Whitaker vs. Ramirez decisive but it was more than one round decisive I'll tell you that much

 

First of all, Ed gave amazing interviews in English, so I can't begin to imagine the sort of things he said to Duran in Spanish. He was a tremendously antagonistic big mouth. Nobody trashed talked LW Duran like that and lived to tell about it, except for Ed, which actually made a splash for him in the cultural mainstream.

His atypically aggressive three fight knockout streak leading up to Rosario was televised, and his post fight interviews were priceless. Teddy Atlas merely pushed Foreman. Ed seemed like the sort to slap and backhand George in provocation. He didn't come across as putting people on the comic way Ali did.

Ed was incredibly media savvy. Unlike Ali [who he definitely drew a great deal from] and more like a professional wrestler of the day, he'd look right into the camera and talk directly to his target with an expression and attitude of genuine hate. I wanted to give him an Emmy, then punch him in the mouth. He had a face like a playground bully, and behaved like one.

It wouldn't have surprised me to hear him say something like, "I'm going to get you, Marvin Hagler! You can't run away from me forever, like the coward that you are, Marvin Hagler! I'm going to go to Brockton, Marvin Hagler, find your puta mother, and slap her across the face, if you're too chicken to fight me! Do you hear me, Marvin Hagler?" All the time he'd be saying something like this about a prospective opponent, he was making eye contact with the viewer at home, and virtually spitting in that viewer's face. To this day, I'm not sure I've ever seen a boxer provide better post fight promos than Ed did in those last wins over Goins, Cuttino and Bing.

They NEVER should have put him in with Rosario. If they were really smart, they'd have continued putting him in against knockout victims, just to build up and then make a killing off of his mouthy post fight insults.

Duran couldn't knock him out in their rematch because he was exhausted with rage, then morphed into sheer frustration. I just reviewed the brutality of rounds 12-15 in the return go. Ed cuts him near the end of the 12th, taunting him for it at the bell, and really rakes El Cholo over the coals in the 12th and 13th. They are slugging it out as the bout ends, then, before the referee is able to step in, Ed shoves Duran away as Roberto turns to his corner.

New Orleans was nothing like Duran-Ed Viruet II. If there was one final LW bout in him after DeJesus III, getting a third crack at Eddie would have been more important to him than the rubber matches with DeJesus and SRL put together. Roberto shows in their second match that he unquestionably would not have quit in New Orleans if he'd been in proper shape. Ray didn't have a fraction of Ed's ability to get under Duran's skin. For one, he didn't speak the language. Roberto, while predictably losing SRL III, at least had the satisfaction of drawing blood on Ray by the end of their finale, turning his right eye into a mess. Ed Viruet never gave him satisfaction, only left him with forever unfinished business.

Roberto Duran could kiss and hug a dying DeJesus, be friendly with SRL, Hagler and other former opponents, and even co-autograph memorabilia with Eddie V. But I suspect that if he's ever behind the wheel in NYC and spots Ed in the crosswalk before him, he'll floor the accelerator. I think what Roberto feels for Ed is something truly special, like what Joey Giardello and Gene Fullmer had, an eternally undying hatred. I think Duran wants to lose weight and maintain enough longevity so he can **** on Ed's grave. [And I think Ed's just the sort of guy to have himself cremated, simply to deny Roberto the fleeting solace of having something to defile.]

 

No, the rounds in Montreal were closely contested, but everybody I was scoring the fight with back then had Duran winning nine of the first ten rounds, as also reported by UPI. Doesn't matter if SRL sweeps the remaining five rounds then. Without somehow producing knockdowns, it's already over for him.

Angelo Poletti had no business scoring that bout. He avoided acting as he was supposed to, like a judge. No way that one was closer than 9-6 in rounds. Indeed, I scored it no closer than 144-141 Duran, as AP did. [The New York Times was already a joke of a rag, so no surprise they'd somehow have it 144-142 SRL.]

 

Damn...that was an entertaining post. Cheers man...

 

Duran comfortably won the Montreal fight. Crooked pro Leonard judges don't count for ****. The N'orleans rematch was different, by that time Leonard had everyone in his pocket which is why he didn't get deducted points for NOT fighting.

Gutless wanker, not fit to be mentioned in the same book as someone like Duran.

**** scared of Mike McCallum. This thing ran all night from a slower than cold treacle Hagler ffs.

 

Duran all day long

 

:rofl

 

Ring Magazine, IIRC, also scored for SRL. I generally score it 8-6-1 Duran these days. 8-7 is reasonable, too, really (Not a lot happened in the first round and there wasn;t much in what did occur). Can't call it for Leonard, but it's a fight that can be scored close without being biased against Cholo, imo.

 

TKO8. Not Leonard's fault that Duran couldn't handle being taunted.

 

Duran would win again. And this Leonard would do worse. Look, if he boxes and dances, he may outbox the Hands of Stone for a portion of the fight, but Leonard would tire because he would be there and chasing his tail, make a street fight of it and Duran would KHTFO!

Why would he tire and get knocked out?

Timing beats speed

A great swarmer beats a great boxer most of the time (Both are hybrid fighters but Duran is more verastile than SRL)

Like Muhammad Ali said: ''No man can last 15 rounds if he takes 6 steps to his opponents 3.'' What he means by that is that dancing and running like a rabbit is not a smart idea, especially against swarmers. Duran's footwork was like Louis and Leonards was like Ali. Only Ali could do what he did in the ring. The only other is Willie Pep. But Leonard is no Pep in terms of legwork and footwork. For most men, if you run like a rabbit, you waste energy. If you tire, your chin and toughness won't help you.

And Last but Not Least:

A weight drained, unmotivated Roberto was only slightly behind after round 7, winning some rounds too. Duran fought MMH better than Leonard did. With Roberto fighting under conventional rules nearly beat him at his peak and at his weight. You can make a case for Duran having actually won the fight. Leonard under Ray's rules did not really beat him. You could make a case in which he has actually lost the fight, but Marvin got robbed.

It will be a Ali-Frazier I like fight but Duran knocks him out late.